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19 December 2021, 10:45 AM | #1 |
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Need some help on this Red Sub
Hi experts. I am looking to acquire this piece below:
https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/f...rvice.5363182/ Any red flags? The seller said its all original except the insert. Can anyone chime in on the validity? ITs a big purchase so can’t be too careful. Really appreciate any input on this piece. Thanks in advance. |
19 December 2021, 12:29 PM | #2 |
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Initial thoughts:
- The seller has made a particular point of disclosing everthing about the watch and its service history. That's a good sign, as long as it comes with the related paperwork from LAWW. I'd ask to see this first - it's pretty much a legit authentication. - I don't mind color-matched hands when they're done as well as that. That's some awesome work. - There might be some room for negotiation due to the repaired/chipped dial (Who doesn't build a negotiation margin into their selling price?), although 23k isn't ridiculous in today's market. - The days of holding out for a perfect all-original 1680 Red are pretty much gone. You'd be waiting a very long time and would need a very thick wallet. Good luck with it. |
19 December 2021, 12:38 PM | #3 |
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I'm not saying that anything is wrong with the watch at all, but how is the fact that LAWW serviced the watch an authentication? I'm pretty sure they will work on whatever they are paid to work on. Not a counterfeit, obviously, but they would certainly service watches with franken parts, service parts, aftermarket parts, etc.
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19 December 2021, 12:52 PM | #4 | |
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I do accept your point that LAWW paperwork isn't definitive authentication, but I wouldn't consider it worthless. They're famously legit guys. They actually serviced my 1680 Red when they were part of the old outfit, and did an amazing job. |
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19 December 2021, 01:18 PM | #5 |
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Not a knock on LAWW at all. I have also had work done by them on multiple occasions and I have only good things to say about them.
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19 December 2021, 04:15 PM | #6 |
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The price isn't too insane, but I'm not sure I could live with those chips on the dial, especially ones that were "professionally repaired".
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19 December 2021, 04:45 PM | #7 |
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At that price point I would have expected pix of the movement and any case /case back corrosion?
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19 December 2021, 11:32 PM | #8 | |
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19 December 2021, 11:33 PM | #9 |
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20 December 2021, 12:14 AM | #10 |
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I'm definitely not an expert on 1680s, but my general impression is that it's a nice watch to wear, but not a top-notch collector example, so it depends what you are looking for. I guess that's the type of Red Sub you will get for $23k on the internet these days. It has been restored so that it can be enjoyed, with relumed hands and repairs on the dial (I see one on the edge by the 23-24 second marks), new crystal, serviced, etc. The case, bezel, and insert seem mediocre, but I'm sure it will be appealing overall on the wrist. As an aside, the photos are annoyingly small, uncropped, and low-res, but perhaps the seller will send better photos on request.
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20 December 2021, 01:12 AM | #11 | |
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20 December 2021, 10:07 PM | #12 |
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Hi all,
The case seems overpolished on one side (very thin lug). Am I wrong ? gilel |
20 December 2021, 11:22 PM | #13 | |
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That said, I’d be very happy with this case considering its age. |
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21 December 2021, 02:37 AM | #14 |
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Amplitude of 224 in the dial-up position with the graph that it has on the time grapher is indicative of the watch needing a full overhaul. In my experience, the bare minimum amplitude for a Cal 15xx movement should be around 250 with a stable graph. As you start to approach the low 200s, that's clearly time for a service. Also, the non-straight graph would give me slight pause for concern.
That said, servicing one of these movements is fairly straight forward and unless you need new parts like a balance wheel with hairspring (which can run about $500) the cost would be between $300 and $700 from an independent. As an example, here's one of my watches https://postimg.cc/Q9n6twvN (albeit this is with a 3035 movement, but the principles are the same). As a final comment, the watch might not have been wound when the picture was taken ... though that would be odd since that's how you normally use the time grapher and you'd think that the person knows about it if they have access to it. |
21 December 2021, 04:54 AM | #15 | |
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21 December 2021, 04:55 AM | #16 | |
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Great input. Really appreciate it. Something that I would have never thought to ask to be honest |
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21 December 2021, 07:02 AM | #17 |
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Case has been polished but it's pretty well done. A lot of information on the watch and transparency from the dealer that's good. I don't like the difference in coulours on plots on the dial (darker and lighter shades). That would bother me!
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21 December 2021, 07:30 AM | #18 |
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Man I have clearly moved on from vintage. 23k is INSANE in my world... depending on how long one has done this I guess ruined me personally. Not that many years ago at 11k I'd be in. Not saying many won't pay that but...it didn't go yet.
I guess once you buy a new one at MSRP perspective changes dramatically. |
21 December 2021, 07:45 AM | #19 |
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For that price, I expect a watch in much better condition. That one is all beat up.
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21 December 2021, 07:58 AM | #20 |
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21 December 2021, 12:46 PM | #21 | |
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21 December 2021, 12:52 PM | #22 |
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Tom, as far as I know, chips aren't something that continues to degrade like other dial damage (ie. dial lacquer starts to degrade, lume patina, etc.).
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21 December 2021, 12:54 PM | #23 | |
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21 December 2021, 12:57 PM | #24 |
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I am not comfortable removing the case back once the service was completed by LAWW as it will compromise the seal (I'm not a watchmaker). I do have a picture of the movement in parts (courtesy of LAWW) and can assure any potential buyer that there is no corrosion and the movement is in great condition. (Should/could have requested LAWW to take a picture of the movement but I did not have plans to sell the watch until recently.)
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22 December 2021, 01:33 AM | #25 | |
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For your own benefit I would wind the watch fully and retake that picture. I am certainly not questioning the veracity of the watch being serviced by LAWW. Just saying that you'd be much better off with a picture showing the watch running as it should after being serviced rather than showing something that will create doubt in the buyer's mind. |
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22 December 2021, 01:40 AM | #26 | |
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22 December 2021, 08:29 AM | #27 | |
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I was completing doing myself a disservice with the previous photo (which I'll append to my listing)...
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22 December 2021, 08:38 AM | #28 | |
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Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
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22 December 2021, 10:18 AM | #29 | |
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I didn’t see those right off. If they were repaired professionally they wouldn’t be such a eye sore I assume. The paint used is too black. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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