Caliber 3130 self regulating experiment

[JMGoodnight369]

I did a little experiment with my 114060 (2018) caliber 3130 to see how accurate I could keep it and for how long. I’ve read post on here referring to resting positions not having a lot of weight in regards to accuracy with the modern movements having the parachrome hair spring. On wrist 24/7 I was keeping about +1.5/day. I went to resting dial up at night. A solid 8 hours as I was trying to keep some variables during this. Dial up I would gain say an extra +.3 to .8 per night. Crown up I would gain just over 2 seconds per day. The sweet spot seems to be crown down. After 31 days I’ve kept an average of +0.1 per day. At the maximum I’ll get half a second fast and then at night it slow back down. So far I’ve only gained 3.9 seconds after this entire month. Have to say I’m very impressed. I did the same with a 214270 caliber 3230 and it always hovered at +2 per day no matter the resting position. My older 114270 caliber 3130 was very similar to the sub. It kept better time in my opinion compared to the 3230. I know not everyone on here is super into accuracy and even get annoyed with such things, but it is one of the biggest selling points for me with Rolex. I really appreciate something that has been designed with such fine tolerances that it can sustain for such long periods of time.

[KathleenL]

It was my understanding that resting the watch dial up overnight would gain a second or two, and that dial down would gain a greater number of seconds. Also, I thought that resting the watch overnight crown up or crown down would slow down the watch, losing a greater number of seconds with the crown down. So you're saying you gained seconds in all four positions?

[JMGoodnight369]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

It was my understanding that resting the watch dial up overnight would gain a second or two, and that dial down would gain a greater number of seconds. Also, I thought that resting the watch overnight crown up or crown down would slow down the watch, losing a greater number of seconds with the crown down. So you're saying you gained seconds in all four positions?

No I gained in all positions but crown down. It seems to gain during the day and at rest it slows down to even its self out. I should’ve checked the timing before and after rest to see approximate loss over night. Dial up and dial down had the same gaining effect for me. It seems as though each movement has a little life of their own and prefer different positions.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

I did a little experiment with my 114060 (2018) caliber 3130 to see how accurate I could keep it and for how long. I’ve read post on here referring to resting positions not having a lot of weight in regards to accuracy with the modern movements having the parachrome hair spring. On wrist 24/7 I was keeping about +1.5/day. I went to resting dial up at night. A solid 8 hours as I was trying to keep some variables during this. Dial up I would gain say an extra +.3 to .8 per night. Crown up I would gain just over 2 seconds per day. The sweet spot seems to be crown down. After 31 days I’ve kept an average of +0.1 per day. At the maximum I’ll get half a second fast and then at night it slow back down. So far I’ve only gained 3.9 seconds after this entire month. Have to say I’m very impressed. I did the same with a 214270 caliber 3230 and it always hovered at +2 per day no matter the resting position. My older 114270 caliber 3130 was very similar to the sub. It kept better time in my opinion compared to the 3230. I know not everyone on here is super into accuracy and even get annoyed with such things, but it is one of the biggest selling points for me with Rolex. I really appreciate something that has been designed with such fine tolerances that it can sustain for such long periods of time.

Look in the real world many movements can perform to the COSC standards even some what some would call very low end.Take the Chinese made Seagull ST19 movement after careful regulation can run a consistent daily average well inside today COSC spec, cost of movement around now $80.And from the introduction of the 3 series Rolex movements from around 1988 on movements are not effected so much with different position as say the 15 series .

[Rolex-istanbul]

i have the same watch and same year

i am going to lie but from 2018 to 2022 i never ever let my watch stop.

i always wear it daily and experimented on the accuracy and positions.

my watch now giving me 0 to plus 2 seconds a year accuracy i am not saying day i am saying year.

4 night i rest it crown up sometime down doesnt matter this position watch slow downs

3 nights i rest it face down this make it go faster.

also walking effects greatly, it will make it go faster.

3130 is the best movement accurate in my oppinion

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rolex-istanbul

i have the same watch and same year

i am going to lie but from 2018 to 2022 i never ever let my watch stop.

i always wear it daily and experimented on the accuracy and positions.

my watch now giving me 0 to plus 2 seconds a year accuracy i am not saying day i am saying year.

4 night i rest it crown up sometime down doesnt matter this position watch slow downs

3 nights i rest it face down this make it go faster.

also walking effects greatly, it will make it go faster.

3130 is the best movement accurate in my oppinion

Then you must have a movement in 100000000000000000,even the best Seiko quartz movements like the 9F movement can only manage -2+2 a year

[saxo3]

@JMGoodnight369 - @Rolex-istanbul

Very interesting your 31xx movement regulation studies.

From end July to mid September 2021, I did a similar experiment with a 3235 caliber (Sea-Dweller 126600).

The watch showed excellent timekeeping during a continuous test period of 9 weeks with daily data taking and permanent watch wearing during daytime. A full caliber winding was only done once at the beginning of the test.

Here is the timekeeping result.


Loss-overnight-dependence on rest position measured with a simple smartphone app.


During daytime, the watch always lost a bit of time, never more than approximately 1 s, which is very good for a mechanical movement.

Overnight, the watch recovered its timekeeping by choosing the appropriate rest position.

My 3235 always gained time in DU, DD, 6U, and 3U, it only lost time in 9U.

This gain/loss is PREDICTABLE and REPRODUCIBLE for my 3235.

I measured the position dependent effect with a timegrapher plus a smartphone app overnight.

The results are summarized in the table below.



Conclusion:

- With normal watch wearing and chosen rest position overnight I can keep my Sea-Dweller (3235) close to perfect timekeeping, for more than 2 months at least.

- It only needs a bit of experience and observation how the gain/loss pattern overnight and during the daytime is.

- Not all watch movements (31xx, 32xx, and others) depend as described above, movement regulation and consistency is a key parameter.

- This study proves that for a healthy and daily worn 32xx watch, no movement winding (after the first full winding) is necessary to keep excellent timekeeping over months.

- Not discussed here, but I have found and collected data that my 3235 timekeeping is TEMPERATURE dependent. The same observation was made by CharlesN for his Explorer II (3285).

[JMGoodnight369]

Originally Posted by saxo3

@JMGoodnight369 - @Rolex-istanbul

Very interesting your 31xx movement regulation studies.

From end July to mid September 2021, I did a similar experiment with a 3235 caliber (Sea-Dweller 126600).

The watch showed excellent timekeeping during a continuous test period of 9 weeks with daily data taking and permanent watch wearing during daytime. A full caliber winding was only done once at the beginning of the test.

Here is the timekeeping result.


Loss-overnight-dependence on rest position measured with a simple smartphone app.


During daytime, the watch always lost a bit of time, never more than approximately 1 s, which is very good for a mechanical movement.

Overnight, the watch recovered its timekeeping by choosing the appropriate rest position.

My 3235 always gained time in DU, DD, 6U, and 3U, it only lost time in 9U.

This gain/loss is PREDICTABLE and REPRODUCIBLE for my 3235.

I measured the position dependent effect with a timegrapher plus a smartphone app overnight.

The results are summarized in the table below.



Conclusion:

- With normal watch wearing and chosen rest position overnight I can keep my Sea-Dweller (3235) close to perfect timekeeping, for more than 2 months at least.

- It only needs a bit of experience and observation how the gain/loss pattern overnight and during the daytime is.

- Not all watch movements (31xx, 32xx, and others) depend as described above, movement regulation and consistency is a key parameter.

- This study proves that for a healthy and daily worn 32xx watch, no movement winding (after the first full winding) is necessary to keep excellent timekeeping over months.

- Not discussed here, but I have found and collected data that my 3235 timekeeping is TEMPERATURE dependent. The same observation was made by CharlesN for his Explorer II (3285).

This is an amazing batch of information you put together. It’s interesting seeing your comparison between a timeographer and a watch tracking app. Which is what I use so it’s nice to see with the data they are quite close in readings. Since you’ve done extensive research into accuracy on different movements can you confirm my theory that each movement tends to have its own particular sweet spots in regards to resting positions? I understand that generally speaking they all kind of do the same in each position but this particular 3130 acts differently than my last which was in the 114270. Same movements but got different results. Or might this just be due to regulation being different from the factory?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

Since you’ve done extensive research into accuracy on different movements can you confirm my theory that each movement tends to have its own particular sweet spots in regards to resting positions?

Yes. I also own watches that have positive rates in all positions.

Originally Posted by JMGoodnight369

I understand that generally speaking they all kind of do the same in each position but this particular 3130 acts differently than my last which was in the 114270. Same movements but got different results. Or might this just be due to regulation being different from the factory?

This "generally speaking" is wrong. Different watches with the same caliber do NOT "do the same in each position".
If individual rates (DU, DD, 9U, 6U, 3U) are positive or negative clearly depends on the individual movement regulation.

[JMGoodnight369]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Yes. I also own watches that have positive rates in all positions.


This "generally speaking" is wrong. Different watches with the same caliber do NOT "do the same in each position".
If individual rates (DU, DD, 9U, 6U, 3U) are positive or negative clearly depends on the individual movement regulation.

Thank you for clarifying that up for me. When I first got into mechanical watches I had the the thought that if two had the same movement they would act the same but have come to learn that’s not the fact. I really appreciate your sharing of knowledge on the subject. Always happy when I learn something new about the craft!

[saxo3]

Small correction: the timekeeping data displayed in the graph of post #7 were not taken from end July to mid September 2021 but from 17.09. - 19.11.2021.