Any chance Patek will announce a 36mm or 37mm Calatrava at Watches and Wonders in 202

[WatchYoSelf]

The current Calatrava watches are too large imo.

[WatchYoSelf]

*2025

[Vasco]

Well, this is really not the trend, I doubt it.

Aside of Patek, when the watches got much larger in the 2012-2016 period (42 to even 45-46), we saw a reversal afterwards, with sometimes 2 size propositions (e.g. the Royal Oak).

Patek didn't go that route, they took maybe +1mm on many references over a 10-year period instead (maybe 2mm maximum for the smaller references).

However, with Patek, it depends on the demand. If many collectors ask for a smaller watch, Patek will certainly consider it. If not, I don't think they will.

[iginut]

If they do I'll be first in the queue

[MRBolton]

Agree that they need to do this. The current size base Calatrava is way too big to that point that it looks a bit awkward. I've tried it on a couple times and wonder whom they're making it for. My wrist is a little over 7" inches, which I feel like is a normal size, and it just looks cheap to me because of the proportions. It could be a Fossil watch to my eyes.

[bp1000]

It would be a surprise to see a 38mm Calatrava using the new 30‑255 PS based on the size of the new movement.

I'm patiently waiting to see what they do with the new Platinum Calatrava which I'm sure will use the 30‑255 PS - I'll take it from there; expecting this next Spring. Looking forward to it.

[WatchYoSelf]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Well, this is really not the trend, I doubt it.

Aside of Patek, when the watches got much larger in the 2012-2016 period (42 to even 45-46), we saw a reversal afterwards, with sometimes 2 size propositions (e.g. the Royal Oak).

Patek didn't go that route, they took maybe +1mm on many references over a 10-year period instead (maybe 2mm maximum for the smaller references).

However, with Patek, it depends on the demand. If many collectors ask for a smaller watch, Patek will certainly consider it. If not, I don't think they will.

No, it is the trend. And it has been for a couple years now. Men are even wearing 34mm and smaller women’s watches. Please refer to the articles below.

https://www.gq.com/story/the-weeknd-ladies-watches

https://www.mrporter.com/en-us/journ...bunny-17489916

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/08/f...y-matters.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/men-wea...mille-7f0ecceb

https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/style...lippe-timothee

https://www.gq.com/story/timothee-ch...rtier-panthere

[WatchYoSelf]

Originally Posted by bp1000

It would be a surprise to see a 38mm Calatrava using the new 30‑255 PS based on the size of the new movement.

I'm patiently waiting to see what they do with the new Platinum Calatrava which I'm sure will use the 30‑255 PS - I'll take it from there; expecting this next Spring. Looking forward to it.

Did Patek mention they’re working on a new platinum Calatrava? I haven’t heard about that.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Vasco

Well, this is really not the trend, I doubt it.

Patek didn't go that route, they took maybe +1mm on many references over a 10-year period instead (maybe 2mm maximum for the smaller references).

+1
No way Patek is going back to small watches. 40mm is the new small for them.

[dchang81]

Not sure why this is considered out of the realm of possibility when they just had the Tokyo 6127 in 36mm for men and 7127 in 31mm for women

[Goose 104]

I really hope they do. A new 5196p would be most welcome!

[ts3]

Not a manual one.

Cannot imagine the 215 movement back in regular production and can't see them developing a new manual movement after having launched the last one just a few years ago. And that one appears too large for 36mm or 37mm.

[JMac6]

I think 39mm is just about as small as Patek can go with the new hand wound base caliber or the newish micro rotor. I think we are in for 39mm+ for a while.

Also, while small watches are trendy, the bulk of watch buyers are purchasing 40mm+ watches.

I wish that we could return to slightly more reasonably sized watches. I think 34-38mm is probably the right size for a dress watch for most guys. I have a 7” wrist and most Patek dress watches don’t slip under my cuff that easily.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by WatchYoSelf

No, it is the trend. And it has been for a couple years now. Men are even wearing 34mm and smaller women’s watches. Please refer to the articles below.

Thanks for the links. I didn't say it isn't possible. Just that it isn't what they've been showing. There are trends and there are fads. Patek doesn't like fads. They wait to see if it becomes a trend they can rely on. They didn't go into the 45mm watches and those watches disappeared after a few years only.

Patek has shown in the past that they can implement something they didn't do before if they feel like it, at any time (the Pt 5711 was not planned, the printings on the 5212, the rebirth of the Minute Repeater prior to the 1989's anniversary thanks to Philippe Stern, the 5800 smaller Nautilus "in", then "out", etc...) but a smaller Calatrava isn't what Patek has shown since the 5107, 5127 or 3919, etc...

Nevertheless, many collectors are still enjoying vintage watches (for the style or the size, the spirit...) and from around 2014 there was a new trend of women wearing men vintage watches (women were also wearing in the 1980's 37mm Royal Oaks presented "officially" for men). A trend medias also tried to start in the mid 2010's by saying there is no men or ladies size, just unisex.

Patek often waits to see when things settle down. If they see there is a demand (like I stated above), they can easily change the course of their collections (as they showed in the past). Until then, I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by dchang81

Not sure why this is considered out of the realm of possibility when they just had the Tokyo 6127 in 36mm for men and 7127 in 31mm for women

It could indeed, but the market they were aimed at was quite specific and, as TS3 mentions, the manual 215 was replaced by the 30-255, as for now at least, for men watches (the 215 is still available for some ladies references). I don't know if it means it will disappear completely or if it's just aiming at offering a new movement watch fans were asking for years (I heard that rumor each year before Basel since 2010). This being done, that could still leave room to a future smaller model in the future if people ask for it.

I'm pretty sure it's not planned but pretty confident that Patek can reverse easily if convenient.