Vintage watches and parts

[Rick5]

Hi,

I have a modern datejust (7 years old), but I have always wondered how people get vintage Rolex watches serviced when they have been out of production for many years. What happens when parts are no longer available for a very old Rolex? Or are there still used parts floating around for many decades?

Thanks,

Rick

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rick5

Hi,

I have a modern datejust (7 years old), but I have always wondered how people get vintage Rolex watches serviced when they have been out of production for many years. What happens when parts are no longer available for a very old Rolex? Or are there still used parts floating around for many decades?

Thanks,

Rick

In general Rolex keeps movement parts for 30 plus years and still most all movement parts available for the 15 series movements.

[Rick5]

Originally Posted by padi56

In general Rolex keeps movement parts for 30 plus years and still most all movement parts available for the 15 series movements.

What happens when they are something like 60 or 70 years old? Can they no longer be serviced at that point?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rick5

What happens when they are something like 60 or 70 years old? Can they no longer be serviced at that point?

Originally Posted by Rick5

What happens when they are something like 60 or 70 years old? Can they no longer be serviced at that point?

Well I have a few Rolex from the 1920s into 1940s and still have them serviced by my watchmaker friend and not needed any movement parts.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Rick5

What happens when they are something like 60 or 70 years old? Can they no longer be serviced at that point?

There are still parts available for 60 or 70 year old watches. Those movements were still being produced for many more years, and as mentioned, Rolex says they produce replacement parts for 30 years after they are discontinued. Additionally, those parts still warehoused will last for many more years.

There is a shortage of parts for very early 15xx series movements at Rolex, but there are several reputable aftermarket manufacturers that make the parts that need replacement more frequently.

Watchmakers can also use parts from watches that are no longer viable but have plenty of useful parts.

Lastly, parts cane actually be made, hence the term "watchmaker"

[Rick5]

Very interesting replies. Thanks, everyone.

[douglasf13]

The concern lies in that Rolex has stopped supplying third party watchmakers with parts, so, when they decide to stop supporting a model in a few decades, I’m not really sure where the parts will come from, especially on the 32xx and newer movements.

[INC]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

The concern lies in that Rolex has stopped supplying third party watchmakers with parts, so, when they decide to stop supporting a model in a few decades, I’m not really sure where the parts will come from, especially on the 32xx and newer movements.

That is why the Universe gave us watchmakers and repairmen. Then it gave us MOPAs, 3D printers, and AI, which can now produce almost any part based on a pattern. Provided it is not an electronic part. Yet.

By the way, with such mass-produced models, spare parts never runs out, at most more watches are dismantled and sold as parts.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by INC

That is why the Universe gave us watchmakers and repairmen. Then it gave us MOPAs, 3D printers, and AI, which can now produce almost any part based on a pattern. Provided it is not an electronic part. Yet.

By the way, with such mass-produced models, spare parts never runs out, at most more watches are dismantled and sold as parts.

That’s optimistic. It’s already getting more difficult to service four digit watches, and 3rd parties were flooded with those spare parts from Rolex for decades. No third parties get any parts for 32xx and newer movements.

It’s unfortunate, because it’s antithetical to the ethos of the brand. Rolex’s push for “in-house” since the 90s has now lead us to them exerting complete control. If I wanted to spend a fortune on a watch maker fabricating parts for a repair, it wouldn’t be on a relatively industrial movement like a Rolex.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

. . .

It’s unfortunate, because it’s antithetical to the ethos of the brand. Rolex’s push for “in-house” since the 90s has now lead us to them exerting complete control. If I wanted to spend a fortune on a watch maker fabricating parts for a repair, it wouldn’t be on a relatively industrial movement like a Rolex.

Rolex began producing their own Tudor movements and even bought out the Sellita patents and productions that are based on their early ETA movements just so they have a reliable source of parts.

It is Swatch that began restricting access to ETA ebauchs for non-Swatch watch manufacturers. Rolex is picking up major brand watches who previously used those ebauchs and are transitioning to Tudor movements. Brands like Brietling and Cartier.

Just because Rolex is presently restricting 32xx movement parts does not mean that as more and more production is geared up that they will never be available to independents.

[INC]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

That’s optimistic.

Yes, that is me

It’s already getting more difficult to service four digit watches, and 3rd parties were flooded with those spare parts from Rolex for decades. No third parties get any parts for 32xx and newer movements.

That is right. But I answered the question, what happens if Rolex NO LONGER repairs these watches!

If I wanted to spend a fortune on a watch maker fabricating parts for a repair, it wouldn’t be on a relatively industrial movement like a Rolex.

From this perspective, it is fortunate that these movements are mass-produced. That is why I do not see a future where there would be no mechanical parts for them from Rolex.

However, another question is whether it is good for us if ONLY Rolex can repair its watches? Obviously not, but it is only a financial question, since it "only" means that there will be no cheaper and, in some cases, better alternative to factory service. However this is not something exceptional, as this is the common case with almost all brands.

EDIT: However, I do not think anyone can be sure how long Rolex will support the OQ watches. Maybe the Mark II will be supported for decades, but the Mark I can be outdated soon. And it is likely that the Beta21 models are already obsolete.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Tools

Rolex began producing their own Tudor movements and even bought out the Sellita patents and productions that are based on their early ETA movements just so they have a reliable source of parts.

It is Swatch that began restricting access to ETA ebauchs for non-Swatch watch manufacturers. Rolex is picking up major brand watches who previously used those ebauchs and are transitioning to Tudor movements. Brands like Brietling and Cartier.

Just because Rolex is presently restricting 32xx movement parts does not mean that as more and more production is geared up that they will never be available to independents.

Sure, but ETA parts are still plentiful. Tudor isn’t making parts available for the Kenissi movements, either, and we already saw the longtime, well known watchmakers loose their Rolex accounts 5-6 years ago. I just don’t see a way to spin any of that as a positive for buying an object that’s supposed to last generations, especially as we’ve also seen Rolex stop supporting older movements already.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by INC

Yes, that is me



That is right. But I answered the question, what happens if Rolex NO LONGER repairs these watches!



From this perspective, it is fortunate that these movements are mass-produced. That is why I do not see a future where there would be no mechanical parts for them from Rolex.

However, another question is whether it is good for us if ONLY Rolex can repair its watches? Obviously not, but it is only a financial question, since it "only" means that there will be no cheaper and, in some cases, better alternative to factory service. However this is not something exceptional, as this is the common case with almost all brands.

EDIT: However, I do not think anyone can be sure how long Rolex will support the OQ watches. Maybe the Mark II will be supported for decades, but the Mark I can be outdated soon. And it is likely that the Beta21 models are already obsolete.

It’s not just a financial decision if no 3rd party options are out there, and then Rolex stops supporting models after a few decades, as they’ve already done.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by INC

However, another question is whether it is good for us if ONLY Rolex can repair its watches? Obviously not, but it is only a financial question, since it "only" means that there will be no cheaper and, in some cases, better alternative to factory service. However this is not something exceptional, as this is the common case with almost all brands.

EDIT: However, I do not think anyone can be sure how long Rolex will support the OQ watches. Maybe the Mark II will be supported for decades, but the Mark I can be outdated soon. And it is likely that the Beta21 models are already obsolete.

Here is my optimistic viewpoint.

Rolex and other Swiss watches may be required to sell parts to 3rd parties in the near future, due to the John Deere "Right to Repair" lawsuit making its way through the courts.

The Beta 21 was used in much cheaper brands as well so they can be scavenged for parts.

I read someplace that Rolex will supply parts for 25 years after production has ceased. The OQ was retired in 2001. So we will find out soon.

[Kev M]

Hopefully Rolex will revise their 30 yr service policy and make parts for 40 or even 50 yrs. I mean they have already extended the service intervals to ten yeas so there is hope :)

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Kev M

Hopefully Rolex will revise their 30 yr service policy and make parts for 40 or even 50 yrs. I mean they have already extended the service intervals to ten yeas so there is hope :)

This was discussed in a thread a few years ago. It seemed back then that it was Rolex USA that had those limits for servicing. In Europe it was no problem getting new spare parts for 15-series movements from Rolex SA directly.

I had a 1680 serviced maybe three years ago and asked the service center and they had no problems with spare parts. I also believe one of the watch makers here working for a service center in Europe confirmed that he could indeed order 15-series spare parts.

This might have changed now. The only thing I know is that the service cost has nearly doubled now for watches with 15-series movements comparing to three years ago.

[INC]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

It’s not just a financial decision if no 3rd party options are out there, and then Rolex stops supporting models after a few decades, as they’ve already done.

I understand your point, but I still don't understand something:

You say it is bad that they do not sell parts to others because then the watches won't be repairable if Rolex does not repair them either. Well, in my opinion, Rolex will obviously repair them as long as they have spare parts! After all, why would not they repair them, if they can repair them? So I think they would fix them if they had spare parts. But if they do not have spare parts anymore, how would they sell them to others?

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Here is my optimistic viewpoint.

Rolex and other Swiss watches may be required to sell parts to 3rd parties in the near future, due to the John Deere "Right to Repair" lawsuit making its way through the courts.

Unfortunately, I do not know this law. As far as I know, these are about warranty issues, and not VERY long-term parts support obligations. For example, here in Hungary here was a law that required a 10-year parts supply, but that was also extreme for its time. I do not think anyone would lay down a law that required someone to provide parts for their product for decades after production stopped. It would be a complete madness in the consumption society.