Question for more experienced buyers

[Kingsking]

I am in negotiation with a seller who has a watch i desire, everything appears to be legit,the photos,his back story etc but he has never sold a watch before and before he wanted to sell this watch he was not active for about 3 years here on try. Now in his older posts he has photos of the watch and it appears he really does own this watch. Question i have is whats the safest way for me to pay for the watch so if i get an empty box in the mail i can get my money back? Paypal? Credit Card? Thanks for any advice.

[Vaxe]

If you have doubts about the deal, best course is to steer clear - there's always another out there. Just not worth the hassle if it goes south.

[Mick P]

Originally Posted by Kingsking

I am in negotiation with a seller who has a watch i desire, everything appears to be legit,the photos,his back story etc but he has never sold a watch before and before he wanted to sell this watch he was not active for about 3 years here on try. Now in his older posts he has photos of the watch and it appears he really does own this watch. Question i have is whats the safest way for me to pay for the watch so if i get an empty box in the mail i can get my money back? Paypal? Credit Card? Thanks for any advice.

Yes the empty box thing is a problem to which there is no answer, your word against his. I worked in the British Post Office for 22 years and it is a rare occurrence and it tends to happen on low value items. So it is a very low risk. You can video the opening of the parcel but his retort will be that you have set it all up in order to reclaim the money.

However despite my 22 years in the Royal Mail, I have always travelled for a F2F because even if it means a day out of your life, you know everything is OK and above board.

Regards

Mick

[mjclark32]

Safest is face to face at a neutral safe location using all precautions etc.
Other than that, probably use an Amex through PayPal, but the buyer will most likely have you pay the 3% incurred fee. I went this route once with a member here and all went well.
Best of luck

[Syed117]

Unless it's some very hard to find watch that only this person happens to have, I would pass.

Have one of the big sellers source you what you want. They can usually find anything.

The person you are in talks with might be honest, but for me personally it's not worth the hassle.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Syed117

Unless it's some very hard to find watch that only this person happens to have, I would pass.

Have one of the big sellers source you what you want. They can usually find anything.

The person you are in talks with might be honest, but for me personally it's not worth the hassle.

[ras47]

Face to face with a new seller, or not at all. Unless of course if the seller is willing to ship the watch to you first. This can work if you have a long and spotless history buying/selling, but it's a longshot.

When I traded for my GMT2 Pepsi, I dealt with a trusted seller with a long history. I agreed to ship my watch to him first for evaluation after we agreed to the trade in principal. He extended me the same courtesy of an evaluation period once I received the Pepsi. I had only joined this forum a couple weeks prior to our trade, had no history other than a 100% eBay rating, and didn't know how to properly evaluate my watch I was trading. It wasn't such a huge leap of faith on my part as the other guy runs an upscale watch store in Atlanta and is all over the forums.

[Speed]

[QUOTE=Syed117;7894530]Unless it's some very hard to find watch that only this person happens to have, I would pass.

/QUOTE]

Absolute - BEST - post on this oft-asked question. Period. The End.

[WJGESQ]

Isn't a there an escrow service you could use?

[Speed]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

Isn't a there an escrow service you could use?

Do you think the Seller would go for that? He wants a quick - frictionless sale.

This is all top of mind for me. I just pinged an eBay seller re: a nice looking Vintage Sub. (I know...not precisely the same situation)

I noticed he did not take returns. Had around 100 feedbacks - all positive / one neutral.

"His response? "There are a lot of Buyer / scammers out there." Umm yes...same for sellers. Then, he directs me to his feedbacks. Well, we all know those can be faked.

[Kingsking]

Thanks for the replies guys, the face to face meeting i impossible and while it's not the hardest watch to source it hasnt been easy either. He has a very nice example for a very good price. I thought about asking him to send me the watch first for an inspection period but i doubt he would put much trust in me after i'm showing none in him.

[sensui]

Trust goes both ways. IMO as a seller if I'm not comfortable with someone, I'd not sell the watch....likewise as a buyer, I wouldn't buy a watch if @ all I felt uncomfortable/nervous. I've dealt with instances like this before and as bullish as this sounds, I usually offer them the option of sending me the watch first (usually to a neutral party like my watchmaker who is long established or trusted sellers I deal with locally to me that has impeccable feedback).....that and my feedback across all forums dealing in high valued items is perfect. If they're not comfortable doing this, I would pass unless someone I have extreme confidence in vouches for them personally.

[ras47]

Originally Posted by Speed

Do you think the Seller would go for that? He wants a quick - frictionless sale.



This is all top of mind for me. I just pinged an eBay seller re: a nice looking Vintage Sub. (I know...not precisely the same situation)



I noticed he did not take returns. Had around 100 feedbacks - all positive / one neutral.



"His response? "There are a lot of Buyer / scammers out there." Umm yes...same for sellers. Then, he directs me to his feedbacks. Well, we all know those can be faked.

Or they build up feedback with cheap items before turning to the big scam.

[joli160]

Have a little faith, get all the info about the seller and use paypal

[DocHorton]

Originally Posted by joli160

Have a little faith, get all the info about the seller and use paypal

^^^^^This... there are very, very few criminals on this site. If you use a credit card and Paypal there is no way you can get screwed. There is a double layer of protection. Do the deal and post pictures.

[Toony]

Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.

[danbrew]

It's essentially a toy, albeit a nice toy. My policy on toys is that they're always purchased with disposable income and income that I'd be ok losing tomorrow. Now, sure, that's not my hope - and I'd be pissed if I got hosed on a deal. But if the loss of such an amount would be so catastrophic to me, then perhaps I shouldn't be buying the toy in the first place.

As a seller, no way I would accept escrow or any type of payment system that could be reversed. PayPal? Phhhfffftt. They always take the buyers word.

Sometimes you have to take a chance. I buy and sell a lot of stuff online - and if I've found some guy that has an ad somewhere, here are just a few things that I'll do to make try to make sure it's legit...

* if a forum, how long has he been around? Has he posted pictures of the item sometime in the past, perhaps when he bought it from somebody else? The fact that you found 3-yr old photos from this dude of the same item? Pretty sure bet that he's got the item and it's not a scam.
* I'll search for entire groups of words from his ad in google using quotes (" ") on each end of the string. Scammer typically take the same ad and post it all over the place. If I find the exact same verbiage in another ad and it doesn't have the same contact info, name, price, etc.? Somethings up.
* Google his user name and real name and see what comes up.
* Before sending money to a physical address, I'll verify that the name of the guy and real address add up - perhaps go check the property records for the town/village where the guy lives and make sure that he lives at this address. Maybe also look for verification that the name/phone number marry up as well.
* Maybe have a phone call with the guy and talk watches and see if he sounds like he gets it.
* Maybe ask for a copy of his drivers license & then map it to that stuff above.

All in all, it doesn't take me all that long to verify a buyer.

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by danbrew

It's essentially a toy, albeit a nice toy. My policy on toys is that they're always purchased with disposable income and income that I'd be ok losing tomorrow. Now, sure, that's not my hope - and I'd be pissed if I got hosed on a deal. But if the loss of such an amount would be so catastrophic to me, then perhaps I shouldn't be buying the toy in the first place.

As a seller, no way I would accept escrow or any type of payment system that could be reversed. PayPal? Phhhfffftt. They always take the buyers word.

Sometimes you have to take a chance. I buy and sell a lot of stuff online - and if I've found some guy that has an ad somewhere, here are just a few things that I'll do to make try to make sure it's legit...

* if a forum, how long has he been around? Has he posted pictures of the item sometime in the past, perhaps when he bought it from somebody else? The fact that you found 3-yr old photos from this dude of the same item? Pretty sure bet that he's got the item and it's not a scam.
* I'll search for entire groups of words from his ad in google using quotes (" ") on each end of the string. Scammer typically take the same ad and post it all over the place. If I find the exact same verbiage in another ad and it doesn't have the same contact info, name, price, etc.? Somethings up.
* Google his user name and real name and see what comes up.
* Before sending money to a physical address, I'll verify that the name of the guy and real address add up - perhaps go check the property records for the town/village where the guy lives and make sure that he lives at this address. Maybe also look for verification that the name/phone number marry up as well.
* Maybe have a phone call with the guy and talk watches and see if he sounds like he gets it.
* Maybe ask for a copy of his drivers license & then map it to that stuff above.

All in all, it doesn't take me all that long to verify a buyer.

Great advice , thanks

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Kingsking

Great advice , thanks

All great advice indeed. I buy/sell here and there and have been on both ends. Earlier this year I was scammed and never received a watch after sending funds (I shared a long story here on TRF with my gotchas). It was not a great experience but also did not deter me from putting some faith in people; of course I learned quite a few things from the experience to look out for.

Asking the seller/buyer to do a Skype/Facetime/Google Hangout is a reasonable ask. Just to ensure the person in fact has the watch "in hand" and get a gauge of character through a technology "face to face". Also can ask for employer info (ex. work email and then send an email there and ask them to reply back...).

Finally, send me a DM if you want me to look up the buyer's phone number or address. I can look it up in a database that will confirm name/etc. Scammers often use services that route calls/texts through another number so their real number is not exposed and my search would bring that up.

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by dbhak22

All great advice indeed. I buy/sell here and there and have been on both ends. Earlier this year I was scammed and never received a watch after sending funds (I shared a long story here on TRF with my gotchas). It was not a great experience but also did not deter me from putting some faith in people; of course I learned quite a few things from the experience to look out for.

Asking the seller/buyer to do a Skype/Facetime/Google Hangout is a reasonable ask. Just to ensure the person in fact has the watch "in hand" and get a gauge of character through a technology "face to face". Also can ask for employer info (ex. work email and then send an email there and ask them to reply back...).

Finally, send me a DM if you want me to look up the buyer's phone number or address. I can look it up in a database that will confirm name/etc. Scammers often use services that route calls/texts through another number so their real number is not exposed and my search would bring that up.

Wow thanks alot for the offer, sorry to hear about your own experiences of being scammed. I did however enjoy the incoming you posted a while back of that gorgeous 1803, thats the exact model and condition i will be looking for .Thanks again.

[dbhak22]

Originally Posted by Kingsking

Wow thanks alot for the offer, sorry to hear about your own experiences of being scammed. I did however enjoy the incoming you posted a while back of that gorgeous 1803, thats the exact model and condition i will be looking for .Thanks again.

No worries. As hard as it was, I realized that in the end, its just money. Things could have been worse and there are people out there dealing with things far more significant.

Appreciate the comments on the 1803! Keep us posted on the hunt!

[Speed]

Originally Posted by ras47

Or they build up feedback with cheap items before turning to the big scam.

Right-o!

[bob93713]

no payment method can protect against a fraudulent seller, make sure you buy the seller

[bob93713]

that being said, I have had a good experience with interact E transfer

[Hairdude1]

Have you googled the seller? Looked here on TRF?

[rolehex]

What I would do:

At the very beginning I would ask that person their name and where they live. Later on, tell them you have a brother that lives in THEIR area and ask if they would be wiling to do a Face to Face at a local police station, bank or AD. Gage what their response is. If they have a lame excuse not to do a F2F, Red Flag

Second, I would inform the seller that you want to be extra cautious because you've heard of a lot of people getting ripped off lately so YOUR requirements for sale are:
1. I will text you a message of the exact time to set the watch to.
2. Please take a picture of your ID next to the watch (set at that time).
3. Text me back this picture within three minutes. (would be hard to Photoshop something that quickly).
4. If this doesn't happen in a that time frame, repeat this text request again with a different time)
5. If the seller feels you are asking for too much out of them, Then decline the purchase. You have to protect yourself.

After the Picture is sent:
If his/her ID name matches up with the person that the money would be sent to and the name he/she gave you when you started the conversation...then I would feel pretty confident that he/she has that watch in their possession.

That's what I would do to start the process.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by DocHorton

... there are very, very few criminals on this site.

It only takes one. The Internet is a big place.

Originally Posted by danbrew

Maybe ask for a copy of his drivers license & then map it to that stuff above.

As a buyer, I do that. And as a seller, I'm perfectly willing to do it.

Originally Posted by dbhak22

Also can ask for employer info (ex. work email and then send an email there and ask them to reply back...).

Good idea I never thought of. I did once research a buyer and discovered that he was an FBI agent. I figured he would be OK.

I almost bought a watch from a guy in San Francisco who would only do a F2F. I'm in NC. I have a friend who lives near SF, and I asked him if he would pick it up for me. That's always a good option (assuming you have a friend in the seller's city) and cheaper than a plane ticket for me. I didn't buy the watch only because I didn't feel like spending that much money (BLRO) quite yet.

I also did that once buying a watch in Chicago, had my friend who lives there check out the buyer and the watch before I sent the money.