15400 a hard to buy piece?

[SC11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

The LE nature now makes it a no go for me as I'm not playing the allocation game

Why so?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SC11

Why so?

really? I'm happy to oblige if you are being serious.

[SC11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

really? I'm happy to oblige if you are being serious.

Well yeah?

Why does the game change with it going from a normal production model to LE? Not like AP produce in Rolex numbers so 500 is still a fair amount!

Seems a little defeatist to me!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SC11

Well yeah?

Why does the game change with it going from a normal production model to LE? Not like AP produce in Rolex numbers so 500 is still a fair amount!

Seems a little defeatist to me!

Since you asked ill tell you but I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse here. A "boutique" that invites me on a manufacture trip to make up for poor customer service and then immediately stands me up and never actually arranges the trip they promised probably doesn't have me particularly high on the depth chart to begin with. They offered the trip, and it was not something i asked for. Im sorry but I'm not chasing them down to beg them to remember to take me on a trip they offered, its ridiculous. I see a connection between that and the possibility of me being able to get a LE. Plus i don't trust their ability to manage a list anyway as they forget about a lot of stuff depending on who you are. I am already on a list there for a non LE. I can pretty much guarantee I'm never getting the call so a LE isn't going to be better as I'm not chasing them down for a watch. I should be able to get on a list and wait until it arrives and do it with one email or phone call. Im not going to call and email them all the time to remind them and ask for updates as i don't think it should work that way.

Those who are "in" know they are "in" as they are not subtile about it, and those who are "out" know it very clearly too. Why play a game you know you can't win? A LE automatically means more games.

Many people will now come along and dispute this which is fine as everyone has their own interests and access to protect. The poor service and communication has become somewhat normalized. Most admit its an issue to some degree or another, but just deal with it. Im only speaking about London here.

Could i get it from Paris? Maybe. But the fact i would even have to is the issue.

[SC11]

Tyler,
Sorry if this is harsh but yes you are beating a dead horse!

I know and I suspect most of the forum also does by now you have had some issues with AP service which is sad to hear but it’s seriously like you have a bee in your bonnet over this as it seems to come up at every opportunity.

In my mind either you need move on from this or maybe step away from it if it has such an impact of your appreciation and enjoyment of the brand to the point you are talking of selling your AP’s over this.

Which to me is a sad thing as you always seemed to love your AP’s



Back on topic:
My question was nothing to do with the above which clearly to you it was, I was asking from a point of Non LE Vs LE so let’s move on.

[FrmrHoss]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Since you asked ill tell you but I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse here. A "boutique" that invites me on a manufacture trip to make up for poor customer service and then immediately stands me up and never actually arranges the trip they promised probably doesn't have me particularly high on the depth chart to begin with. They offered the trip, and it was not something i asked for. Im sorry but I'm not chasing them down to beg them to remember to take me on a trip they offered, its ridiculous. I see a connection between that and the possibility of me being able to get a LE. Plus i don't trust their ability to manage a list anyway as they forget about a lot of stuff depending on who you are. I am already on a list there for a non LE. I can pretty much guarantee I'm never getting the call so a LE isn't going to be better as I'm not chasing them down for a watch. I should be able to get on a list and wait until it arrives and do it with one email or phone call. Im not going to call and email them all the time to remind them and ask for updates as i don't think it should work that way.

Those who are "in" know they are "in" as they are not subtile about it, and those who are "out" know it very clearly too. Why play a game you know you can't win? A LE automatically means more games.

Many people will now come along and dispute this which is fine as everyone has their own interests and access to protect. The poor service and communication has become somewhat normalized. Most admit its an issue to some degree or another, but just deal with it. Im only speaking about London here.

Could i get it from Paris? Maybe. But the fact i would even have to is the issue.

Fwiw, I was not overly impressed with the service or responsiveness from the NYC boutique either. Definitely not in a way that would make me give them business over my local AD.

I know this is steering the conversation in another direction so apologies for that...

[GB-man]

Well they have both black and white in stock at RDV in Toronto alongside black diver, blue diver and all the new ROC including blue dial.

Unfortunately the prices are laughable at best. I was quoted 40k CAD for the ROC blue!

[chad362wiley]

If anyone has a hookup for a 15400 please pm me an AD.

thanks

chad

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Well they have both black and white in stock at RDV in Toronto alongside black diver, blue diver and all the new ROC including blue dial.

Unfortunately the prices are laughable at best. I was quoted 40k CAD for the ROC blue!

Yeah, pricing is crazy in Canada (although that's their "list" price). They essentially apply the US MSRP plus the exchange rate premium to determine a CAD price.

The AD in Vancouver was telling me it would be $30K CAD tax in ($23,343 USD tax in or $20,482 before 12% sales tax) for the Diver and about $26K CAD tax in ($20,225 USD tax in or $18,058 USD before 12% sales tax) for the 15400. Based on today's exchange rates.

They also don't get enough pieces in a year so they are extremely reluctant to even provide any discounts. As soon as the steel models comes in they are gone.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

Yeah, pricing is crazy in Canada (although that's their "list" price). They essentially apply the US MSRP plus the exchange rate premium to determine a CAD price.

The AD in Vancouver was telling me it would be $30K CAD tax in ($23,343 USD tax in or $20,482 before 12% sales tax) for the Diver and about $26K CAD tax in ($20,225 USD tax in or $18,058 USD before 12% sales tax) for the 15400. Based on today's exchange rates.

They also don't get enough pieces in a year so they are extremely reluctant to even provide any discounts. As soon as the steel models comes in they are gone.

That’s nuts. If I was Canadian I would buy all my APs abroad. When I told him jumbos go for 22,5 in the US he didn’t believe me lol

[RHJ]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

AP lists prices on the US website

In Europe I see 18400€...

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by RHJ

In Europe I see 18400€...

I didn't quite understand European AP prices either. I was in Munich for Oktoberfest and checked out a few AD's. All the AP in Munich had a slightly higher list price in Euros than they did in USD here.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by GB-man

That’s nuts. If I was Canadian I would buy all my APs abroad. When I told him jumbos go for 22,5 in the US he didn’t believe me lol

Yup. I remember when I was shopping for a Jumbo at RDV they told me it would be $33K CAD or so, plus taxes with no discount, then the CAD skyrocketed against the USD making it an even worse deal.

I ended up buying mine in Hong Kong for full list, which was $29K CAD converted, or $22.7K USD.

With 2 AP ADs in all of Canada, they can charge what they like! How I pine for the days when La Swiss was an AD in Montreal, and they gave 40% discounts without much fuss!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tng11

Yup. I remember when I was shopping for a Jumbo at RDV they told me it would be $33K CAD or so, plus taxes with no discount, then the CAD skyrocketed against the USD making it an even worse deal.

I ended up buying mine in Hong Kong for full list, which was $29K CAD converted, or $22.7K USD.

With 2 AP ADs in all of Canada, they can charge what they like! How I pine for the days when La Swiss was an AD in Montreal, and they gave 40% discounts without much fuss!

I should have known better. I tried to buy an SS 44 up there a couple summers ago and we were wayyyy off on price. I had to go to bloor so I felt obligated to stop in. Next time I'll leave the APs in the case

[Karlig]

I’m seeing the same thing. Have been looking for a good price on a 15400 silver dial stainless, gray market, new and can’t find one from a trusted seller. Have been searching for 4 months and haven’t found one priced right. David SW seems have good prices but hasn’t had one for a while. I visited the Vegas Botique and they had a silver, black & gray dial in stock, willing to discount the silver dial but not a great deal. They told me that they sell the silver dials a little cheaper than the others. They also advised they could get a blue dial in roughly 4 months, but i’m Not willing to pay thousands more for the color. Very nice store and nice, non snooty sales people.

[benlee]

I wonder if this "shortage" is a supply driven situation or a demand driven situation and whether it is only specific to certain markets. If the former, it means AP is deliberately making less but this is not likely to be sustainable on the long term as AP will still need to sell watches eventually. If the latter, then I guess it is going to the direction of PP/RM where popular pieces become very hard to find and good for existing owners ( value retention ) but not so great for new buyers ( waitlist, no discount etc ).

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by texasmade

I didn't quite understand European AP prices either. I was in Munich for Oktoberfest and checked out a few AD's. All the AP in Munich had a slightly higher list price in Euros than they did in USD here.

The german price is probably inclusive of VAT. If the VAT is 20% (making this number up) and you can get it refunded, it could end up being cheaper than the US

[ezinhk]

Plenty in HK but discount less than before

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

The german price is probably inclusive of VAT. If the VAT is 20% (making this number up) and you can get it refunded, it could end up being cheaper than the US

It does include VAT but if you're a local, you're getting screwed. Prices are all similar in terms of USD for US buyers but really inflated for Europeans trying to buy from the local AD.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by ezinhk

Plenty in HK but discount less than before

Demand is market driven.

Right now I see a trend with the North American and European market being strong for AP (across all models).

Traditionally, the RO line and AP in general is not as prevalent in Asia compared to other brands. IWC has a huge presence over there while a bit "flat line" over here in comparison.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by SC11

Tyler,
Sorry if this is harsh but yes you are beating a dead horse!

I know and I suspect most of the forum also does by now you have had some issues with AP service which is sad to hear but it’s seriously like you have a bee in your bonnet over this as it seems to come up at every opportunity.

In my mind either you need move on from this or maybe step away from it if it has such an impact of your appreciation and enjoyment of the brand to the point you are talking of selling your AP’s over this.

Which to me is a sad thing as you always seemed to love your AP’s



Back on topic:
My question was nothing to do with the above which clearly to you it was, I was asking from a point of Non LE Vs LE so let’s move on.

The Avatar change to PP, which I had to take a second glance to check it was this Tyler's, said something was up.

[jschmidtdmd]

Originally Posted by benlee

I wonder if this "shortage" is a supply driven situation or a demand driven situation and whether it is only specific to certain markets. If the former, it means AP is deliberately making less but this is not likely to be sustainable on the long term as AP will still need to sell watches eventually. If the latter, then I guess it is going to the direction of PP/RM where popular pieces become very hard to find and good for existing owners ( value retention ) but not so great for new buyers ( waitlist, no discount etc ).

Good post Ben.......These are my thoughts as well.

Brands still need to make money. So are they willing to cut production and reduce profits to maintain secondary values? Or is this temporary?

I suppose only time will tell.

[ezinhk]

AP and many others following Hermes game - release less supply to create demand

Many dealers closed down in HK = surplus of 15400 floating around

IWC is dead here

Originally Posted by 2nastie

Demand is market driven.

Right now I see a trend with the North American and European market being strong for AP (across all models).

Traditionally, the RO line and AP in general is not as prevalent in Asia compared to other brands. IWC has a huge presence over there while a bit "flat line" over here in comparison.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by ezinhk

AP and many others following Hermes game - release less supply to create demand

Many dealers closed down in HK = surplus of 15400 floating around

IWC is dead here

Agree on the game plan. I can see that playing a role.

But what do you mean dealers closed down in HK therefore surplus of 15400 floating around? Through grey dealers or 2nd hand dealers?

When I think of dealers/AD closing down... that only reduces supply not create more.

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Since you asked ill tell you but I'm really not trying to beat a dead horse here. A "boutique" that invites me on a manufacture trip to make up for poor customer service and then immediately stands me up and never actually arranges the trip they promised probably doesn't have me particularly high on the depth chart to begin with. They offered the trip, and it was not something i asked for. Im sorry but I'm not chasing them down to beg them to remember to take me on a trip they offered, its ridiculous. I see a connection between that and the possibility of me being able to get a LE. Plus i don't trust their ability to manage a list anyway as they forget about a lot of stuff depending on who you are. I am already on a list there for a non LE. I can pretty much guarantee I'm never getting the call so a LE isn't going to be better as I'm not chasing them down for a watch. I should be able to get on a list and wait until it arrives and do it with one email or phone call. Im not going to call and email them all the time to remind them and ask for updates as i don't think it should work that way.

Those who are "in" know they are "in" as they are not subtile about it, and those who are "out" know it very clearly too. Why play a game you know you can't win? A LE automatically means more games.

Many people will now come along and dispute this which is fine as everyone has their own interests and access to protect. The poor service and communication has become somewhat normalized. Most admit its an issue to some degree or another, but just deal with it. Im only speaking about London here.

Could i get it from Paris? Maybe. But the fact i would even have to is the issue.

Almost didn't recognize you there with that avatar changed bud!