GMT 16750 case and caseback

[indianmachine]

can we see a picture of the other side between the lugs?

[Saki.]

Thank you for your support. Today I will take the GMT back to my Rolex dealer. He should also take another close look.
Here a picture of the serial number of the other side between the lugs.
And again a picture of the certificate.
If this is really all fake, it would be very criminal.

https://imgur.com/a/w0rqR6b

https://imgur.com/a/j0Q5fgO

[TimeToGo]

.
Obviously something brought you to start a thread regarding the authenticity of your watch. Even with your continued reluctance, you are spoon feeding pictures and you have received some very sound comments.

Post pictures of the caseback and as requested before, of the bracelet.
You may get your final answer, even if contrary to what your Rolex Dealer says..

[Saki.]

Thank you very much for your help. Here are the photos of bracelet and clasp.
Unfortunately, I can not open the watch itself to show you the inside of the caseback. I will make up for that.

https://imgur.com/a/XAFqBBu

[Saki.]

And another picture from the watch.

https://imgur.com/a/2xLCDDk

[alwayshere]

I just had a chance to compare my 16750 engravings. My observations below, I think its worth asking the same questions on VRF (the other vintage site).

1) Oddly enough, my 16750 serial is very close to yours. In fact, the first 4 digits are the same. 8068XXX.
2) the pantograph of the engravings are completely from mine to yours. Mine is more like NJsteve's earlier in this thread.
3) your "engravings" also dont look the typical depth, it actually looks more like etching than engraving - maybe its just my monitor.

In any case, this warrants a closer look. My suggestions:

1) see if you can drop it off at Rolex Service Centre and have them give you a service quote. That will determine alot - it may also take time as I believe most RSCs are backlogged
2) post this thread on VRF - there is a couple of gents who can help.
3) where is Springer? he should be able to opine on this too. Lets go find him!

there is a small chance engraving styles have changed during time but given how close my serial is to yours, I think this is a low chance but again, I could be wrong. I also have yet to see fake 16750s.... but never say never.

[TimeToGo]

.
Engravings are Engravings, PERIOD. They do not change for one watch.
.
Want to play around, look for similar engravings such as the "A" in Stainless and the "5" on the model number of the OPs watch..
.
This should be moved to the watchout section... There is no merit to continue with this one..

[TuRo]

Do you have the inner caseback photo too please. From photo I'm not too keen on the 5 either, or the R or X of ROLEX.
Be interested to hear what Xeramic thinks, if he's floating by.

[Saki.]

@alwayshere Thank you for your effort and suggestion. This is how I will do it.

@TuRo I don't have a tool here at home to open the GMT. Or is there a trick without a tool? Next week I can post the inside of the caseback.


One thing is for sure, movement is real, dial I think too. The certificate also makes a genuine impression.
I hope I get another solution to the problem with the engravings and the case.

Thank you all very much for the support

Saki

[swish77]

This is a weird one. You have what looks like a legitimate certificate. So, assuming the case is fake, someone took a real certificate and matched the case to it? Possible, of course, but quite the elaborate endeavor. And the movement and dial are legit? Definitely odd.

[baumare]

A photo of the code on the bottom right of the Certificate may help to see if there is any inconsistency

[Saki.]

It is very strange. The movement has been found authentic by 3 Rolex watchmakers. 2 of them have been working for Rolex for over 25 years.

The dial is also authentic, it has, like the hands, also a slight moisture damage.


But I have never seen this kind of numbers in engravings of the 16750. I must have looked at 30 engravings from that time now.

[Saki.]

@baumare the Code on the bottom right is 570.00.

How can I check the code?

[CTech]

There was a member called GLADIATOR (real name Adam) who, a few years ago, claimed to have seen several of this type of watch together with several of their counterparts. I believe he worked in a pawn shop and said that he was seeing many watches coming in every week that were not correct in one of two ways:

1. Genuine case and bracelet, fake movement, dial, hands, etc.

2. Fake case and bracelet, genuine movement, dial, hands, etc.

Many members were skeptical of his claims as he had a history of misidentifying watches as fake or genuine, but the discussions led to some theories about how this was happening, if indeed it was true.

The theory that had most credence was that there was an individual or small group of people who were making two apparently good watches out of a genuine one and a fake one.

The process was thought to be that they would buy genuine late model Rolex sport watches (with some supporting accessories such as the original box, the purchase receipt, the certificate) and then swap parts with a fake watch, distribute the accessories between the two and sell each one as genuine. The idea was that each watch contained enough genuine parts that it would pass a cursory examination or at least be so confusing that a non-specialist might say "it must be OK as these parts look right".

Another part of the theory was that this operation had access to blank fake cases so that they could engrave the details of the model and serial number to suit whatever documentation they had to hand.

Many people remained skeptical of these theories but it is possible to see why this would be profitable and also possible to see how it could be done, so it should not be dismissed too easily.

The extreme view of all this speculation was that it is likely that there are many pairs of watches with the same serial number distributed around the world; one with a fake movement/genuine case and a receipt or certificate to verify it and the other with a fake case/genuine movement also with either a receipt or a certificate.

I still don't know whether to believe this as I've not personally seen either of the two types of fake watch, but it does make me wonder if Saki's 16750 was a result of this process.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
Engravings are Engravings, PERIOD. They do not change for one watch.
.
Want to play around, look for similar engravings such as the "A" in Stainless and the "5" on the model number of the OPs watch..
.
This should be moved to the watchout section... There is no merit to continue with this one..

Engraving styles can be different across one model especially if that model is a long running one, say 5513.

But what I think is becoming quite clear is the engraving on this one isn't right so money is on this case been a fake one.

[swaini3]

The code is good for the certificate / year but you've deleted the image of the warranty for some reason. Anyways, I wouldn't bet on Rolex's say for authenticating the case or engravings. The movement yes. If this is the same watch that you posted about in your other thread with the glowing lume, then that's another thing to add to the list as we've commented about the glow.

[swaini3]

and here's a comparison pic of a gen case vs yours, I've highlighted a few differences and they are not due to wrong polishing imo:

[baumare]

Originally Posted by swaini3

The code is good for the certificate / year but you've deleted the image of the warranty for some reason. Anyways, I wouldn't bet on Rolex's say for authenticating the case or engravings. The movement yes. If this is the same watch that you posted about in your other thread with the glowing lume, then that's another thing to add to the list as we've commented about the glow.

Hi Swaini, if I remember well, isn't the code 570.00 kind of a "special" certificate?

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Engraving styles can be different across one model especially if that model is a long running one, say 5513.

But what I think is becoming quite clear is the engraving on this one isn't right so money is on this case been a fake one.

Not in this case... Pun intended..

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by baumare

Hi Swaini, if I remember well, isn't the code 570.00 kind of a "special" certificate?

Hi,
Dont think so, I've seen many around the same serial range with the country code punched as well.

[Dan S]

I am still wondering why the OP kept coming back and asking the forum if the watch was legit, since he had supposedly had it authenticated by an authorized dealer. Apparently, he had some reason to be skeptical. Something isn't quite adding up for me.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Saki.

@alwayshere Thank you for your effort and suggestion. This is how I will do it.

@TuRo I don't have a tool here at home to open the GMT. Or is there a trick without a tool? Next week I can post the inside of the caseback.


One thing is for sure, movement is real, dial I think too. The certificate also makes a genuine impression.
I hope I get another solution to the problem with the engravings and the case.

Thank you all very much for the support

Saki

You can open any Rolex caseback at home with a squash ball or a glass with a fat elastic band around a glass....
And unfortunately, I am afraid you ll get disappointed ...

[Saki.]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I am still wondering why the OP kept coming back and asking the forum if the watch was legit, since he had supposedly had it authenticated by an authorized dealer. Apparently, he had some reason to be skeptical. Something isn't quite adding up for me.

Hi Dan, the watchmakers at the authorized dealer were sure the GMT was genuine.
I think they can judge it by the movement, probably by the Dial as well.
I think they just don't see these differences in the case. I am skeptical about the watch, and not without reason it seems.
Now I'm really curious how something like this comes about, correct movement, dial, but then a wrong case.
Really logical, it is not from my perspective.

I will send it to Rolex, to see what they say.

[TuRo]

570 is the Indian sub-continent I thought. Is that the dealer stamp location too?

What code on bottom right of cert eg 571 xxx

Op, respectfully, the calibres 1570/5 and later 3075 (yours) being original means nothing.....in fact, most good fakes have an original calibre in-situ.

The reason why is that that this started with the 1675 where you can get one from any doner scruffy couple of thousand dollar 1601/1603 etc Datejust.... and the mvt could be bought for under $500 10 years ago, $1000 in 2017 or about $1500-1800 now snaffles one on eBay!

Having said that, your 3075 (quick set) was only made for a few years and doner watches are much fewer eg the models of
18026, 18028, 18029, 18038 etc, but the sentiment remains the same, original mvts in a 'fake built' watch are the easiest start point.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by TuRo

570 is the Indian sub-continent I thought. Is that the dealer stamp location too?

What code on bottom right of cert eg 571 xxx

.

the country code was 770 (Venezuela), the code on the bottom right was 570.00 according to the OP.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by swaini3

the country code was 770 (Venezuela), the code on the bottom right was 570.00 according to the OP.

Thanks Mo, Sorry got muddled on the 570/770 ! So it should have a legitimate Venezuela dealer stamp on cert.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Thanks Mo, Sorry got muddled on the 570/770 ! So it should have a legitimate Venezuela dealer stamp on cert.

[Saki.]

Hello dear ones,

First of all I would like to thank you very much. You have helped me very much to clarify the facts.
I have read in the VRT forum a great post by "Xeramic" to the number engravings.
I can match any other of my vintage Rolexes to one of the templates, but not the 16750.

There will be something wrong with it. As I said, I will send the watch to Rolex. Let's see what happens.
I still find it mysterious. Dial genuine, movement genuine, and then this strange case. Well, learned a lot again

Saki

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Saki.

Hello dear ones,

First of all I would like to thank you very much. You have helped me very much to clarify the facts.
I have read in the VRT forum a great post by "Xeramic" to the number engravings.
I can match any other of my vintage Rolexes to one of the templates, but not the 16750.

There will be something wrong with it. As I said, I will send the watch to Rolex. Let's see what happens.
I still find it mysterious. Dial genuine, movement genuine, and then this strange case. Well, learned a lot again

Saki

Still the same question remaining, why don't you show a picture of the caseback, that's the easiest and shortest way from your question to a clear reply.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

Still the same question remaining, why don't you show a picture of the caseback, that's the easiest and shortest way from your question to a clear reply.

Why is that? The case back could be legit and the case a total fraud.