Lost the Love

[Balance]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

This is not how it works. As it's clear you know, any single service advisor has orders of magnitude more "names on a list" than watches to deliver from year to year. If you think that it's a one-and-done proposition of showing up, putting your name on a list, and then sitting by the phone waiting for the text or email . . . that's just not how it works.

When a watch comes in and it's that service advisor's turn to sell it (yes, there is a rotation at any given boutique for many of the pieces) how do they pick who gets it? (A) There's a bit of an algorithm involved . . . as prior purchase history (and no not gray) is ALWAYS relevant. (B) There's human nature involved. Meaning, if the service advisor can't remember who "Michael Smith" is because Mr. Smith put his name on the list 18 months ago and hasn't been seen since . . . it ain't gonna happen. And (C) the manager gets a say in, I think, 100% of the decisions. The service advisor has to be able to say a sentence or two as to why Michael Smith and not any of the 87 other names on the list should get this one.

(C) is where many readers will respond with, "I'm not going to grovel" and "I'm not going to prostrate myself just to by an overprice luxury item that costs as much as a nice car." That's all well and good. Buy gray where you don't have to do that.

And STOP YELLING AT THE CLOUDS GRANDPA SIMPSONS.

Probably the best written explanation of how this works I've seen on this forum.

Reading between the lines of this post will give you a great guide on how to get pieces allocated to you.

[dannyboy123]

Originally Posted by APhound

Ya actually I was just in aspen this weekend and had a great visit with them, they know my nomad and we had a nice connection there. Treated me very well. Even got three AP hats! Haha
But that same store two years ago told me they could never sell me a watch since I had sold an AP (that I bought grey for $50k over) but were extremely nice to me this time and knew I had a great relationship going with my nomad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

whats a nomad?

[APhound]

Originally Posted by dannyboy123

whats a nomad?

Just a different sales guy you try to trick into selling you watches once you accept you’re never getting them from the boutiques.

But seriously it saved me from almost wanting to leave the brand. Then i got five watches that I wanted in the first year. (Turned down many I didn’t want as well) Been a fantastic relationship- very grateful.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by Balance

Probably the best written explanation of how this works I've seen on this forum.

Reading between the lines of this post will give you a great guide on how to get pieces allocated to you.

Agreed.

[Stupot]

Originally Posted by dauster

Was recently staying right next to FP journe on sunset - I was surprised how quickly they got back to me when I emailed. Unfortunately they were undergoing renovations and the boutique was closed.

My wife still wants the Havana dial octa lune in 38mm- seems like a good buy since we both can wear it. Have to go down to LA and make and intro



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know taste is subjective, but that to me is an abomination, I just don’t get the FP hype. They are like something my grandparents would have worn.

The styling is say your old but without saying your old!

[ts3]

Originally Posted by dauster

Was recently staying right next to FP journe on sunset - I was surprised how quickly they got back to me when I emailed. Unfortunately they were undergoing renovations and the boutique was closed.

My wife still wants the Havana dial octa lune in 38mm- seems like a good buy since we both can wear it. Have to go down to LA and make and intro

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck trying to get a 38mm Journe at a boutique... Hint: they stopped making them around 2015.

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by Token74

Thanks Mike, some kind words and some sound advice. I will give Gareth a buzz when back in the UK as maybe he can pass on the feedback in the right way for the greater good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You do know what GW44 means?

G is Gareth and 44 is the number of AP allocations he gets a year.

Oh and the W? Obviously its WHALE

Joking aside Vince, things do go wrong in life. Get in touch with him and lets see if this can be put right.

[ikincooper]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

You do know what GW44 means?

G is Gareth and 44 is the number of AP allocations he gets a year.

Oh and the W? Obviously its WHALE

Joking aside Vince, things do go wrong in life. Get in touch with him and lets see if this can be put right.

This made me laugh out loud.

I love the way this thread has developed (supporting family vibe) and Vince it was mostly photos of your AP’s that specifically got me interested in the brand so thank you. I’m pleased that you’re still keeping the lovely watches that you have and congrats on your upcoming birthday.

Niki


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dauster]

Originally Posted by ts3

Good luck trying to get a 38mm Journe at a boutique... Hint: they stopped making them around 2015.

???? It’s still showing on the website - 38 or 40mm




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ts3]

On the website it says 40mm or 42mm. Not sure but your pics may show the old version which had a smaller date window.

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/collecti...tomatique-lune

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/collecti...ue-lune-havana

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by APhound

Ya actually I was just in aspen this weekend and had a great visit with them, they know my nomad and we had a nice connection there. Treated me very well. Even got three AP hats! Haha
But that same store two years ago told me they could never sell me a watch since I had sold an AP (that I bought grey for $50k over) but were extremely nice to me this time and knew I had a great relationship going with my nomad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know anything about your specific conversation two years ago, but in general, the Aspen team are just really good people. As you can imagine, they have to deal with ALOT of tourist just walking through town and have a pretty small pool of actual locals (only 6k people actually live in Aspen). I am sure other boutiques in certain areas deal with the same thing...but I am guessing they have the smallest pool of locals compared to the other boutiques.

The team there are just normal locals going to work each day and trying their best like so many other people. When you, or anyone reading this, stops in...try to think about if they have had many friendly people to talk to that day, or if they have had the same conversation with 50 different people wanting watches (based on how crowded town is). Somedays can be boring and you could make their day by talking about something other then just watches that you want them to allocate to you.

[APhound]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I don't know anything about your specific conversation two years ago, but in general, the Aspen team are just really good people. As you can imagine, they have to deal with ALOT of tourist just walking through town and have a pretty small pool of actual locals (only 6k people actually live in Aspen). I am sure other boutiques in certain areas deal with the same thing...but I am guessing they have the smallest pool of locals compared to the other boutiques.

The team there are just normal locals going to work each day and trying their best like so many other people.

Ya they are.
I was there this weekend and they couldn’t have been nicer. Pulled some really cool stuff out of the back and they were really fun to chat with. Best ap boutique experience I’ve had. It’s also nice when you’re not trying to buy anything and they still treat you like a valuable customer. Highly recommend the Aspen store


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[leisen]

OP explains that his loss of love for AP is due to two reasons. First, the not very good behavior of the AP Boutique Sales guy and, second, the lack of quality of AP movements. This second aspect has been ignored in this thread focussing on AP policies and so. However, I understand this second ignored aspect perfectly because my 15300 also had a screw coming out (when new) and the crown coming out (some time later) among other issues. So that also produces loss of love.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by ts3

On the website it says 40mm or 42mm. Not sure but your pics may show the old version which had a smaller date window.

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/collecti...tomatique-lune

https://www.fpjourne.com/en/collecti...ue-lune-havana

ok maybe for the havana dial - hmmm tricky anyway Ill work it out if I make it to the boutique

[ts3]

Originally Posted by dauster

ok maybe for the havana dial - hmmm tricky anyway Ill work it out if I make it to the boutique

Incorrect, not just the Havana dial. Sadly so, I might add.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by dauster

Was recently staying right next to FP journe on sunset - I was surprised how quickly they got back to me when I emailed. Unfortunately they were undergoing renovations and the boutique was closed.

My wife still wants the Havana dial octa lune in 38mm- seems like a good buy since we both can wear it. Have to go down to LA and make and intro


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think FPJ boutiques are generally well run. I had a good experience with the NYC location and Miami.

They are also far more up front and clear. It seems like a transparent and fair process VS AP.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

You do know what GW44 means?

G is Gareth and 44 is the number of AP allocations he gets a year.

Oh and the W? Obviously its WHALE

Joking aside Vince, things do go wrong in life. Get in touch with him and lets see if this can be put right.

Well, the G is certainly for Gareth.

The W is clearly for Wan***

And the 44 is my IQ, on a good day, obvs 🙄

As you were team

[EdwardC]

Originally Posted by leisen

OP explains that his loss of love for AP is due to two reasons. First, the not very good behavior of the AP Boutique Sales guy and, second, the lack of quality of AP movements. This second aspect has been ignored in this thread focussing on AP policies and so. However, I understand this second ignored aspect perfectly because my 15300 also had a screw coming out (when new) and the crown coming out (some time later) among other issues. So that also produces loss of love.

We should ask whose 15300 didn't have the crown coming out after 5+ years? I think it happens to everyone I know of.

Surprisingly the 15450 and 15400 models didn't have this problem despite the same movement.

[xliang23]

Originally Posted by GW44

Well, the G is certainly for Gareth.

The W is clearly for Wan***

And the 44 is my IQ, on a good day, obvs 🙄

As you were team

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

IMO AP out of all brands has let the hype get to their heads... because they didn't used to be like this (at least in my prior experience). But maybe I am getting too old and the new breed of collector doesn't feel this way and is ok with "going on a journey"... many times to nowhere.

Know what else "didn't used to be like this?" The TREMENDOUS demand for the merchandise -- the fact that sales associates have lists of dozens and dozens of people who want to buy a model of which that associate gets access to sell maybe 3 to 5 per year.

I'd also like to address your "journey" comment because this is 100% the case. The simple math is that to get access to, say, purchase a Jumbo, you'll have had to have purchased a number of pieces already. For me personally, it has worked out because there were a number of AP's I was genuinely interested in acquiring, and my "journey" has not included buying pieces I dont really want. I love my 1st gen. rose gold Code (purple dial), my 2 ROOs (original Ti "Ghost" and the new black/blue ceramic), and my 50th anniversary RO. And it included my wife buying a 34mm RO and the staff knowing her as well as me.

Patek dealers absolutely want to get people on the "journey" as well. One cannot acquire certain complications before progressing a certain way on the "journey." Lucky for me I'm not interested in owning those anyway!

People who really want ANY AP can buy it within hours or days on the gray market. So that's the solution. But getting all emotional over the fact that "AP won't sell me what I want when I want it," knowing full well what the backlog is, seems like intentional self-sabotage.

It's just totally unrealistic to think that the definition of "luxury" is to have a brand let you (not you but the OP) jump the line and in doing so treat you differently than 99.8% of their other customers who also are interested in the very same thing.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Balance

Probably the best written explanation of how this works I've seen on this forum.

Reading between the lines of this post will give you a great guide on how to get pieces allocated to you.

Thank you!

Yes; the formula for how to get pieces is readily derivable from my post.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

It's just totally unrealistic to think that the definition of "luxury" is to have a brand let you (not you but the OP) jump the line and in doing so treat you differently than 99.8% of their other customers who also are interested in the very same thing.

Agree with all your points except for the last one, I don't think it's unrealistic to have a different definition of luxury. Luxury doesn't HAVE to be this way, not all brands play this game and in the future I'm sure the luxury game will change and be different from today. I hope OP and other people complaining about AP spend their money with and support brands that treat them well and give them the luxury experience they want. Brands are simple, they will treat you however best maximizes revenue and if treating you like dirt means you want it more, that's what they will do. AP couldn't send people on these journeys if there wasn't a line of people with their wallets ready to buy tickets.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Agree with all your points except for the last one, I don't think it's unrealistic to have a different definition of luxury. Luxury doesn't HAVE to be this way, not all brands play this game and in the future I'm sure the luxury game will change and be different from today. I hope OP and other people complaining about AP spend their money with and support brands that treat them well and give them the luxury experience they want. Brands are simple, they will treat you however best maximizes revenue and if treating you like dirt means you want it more, that's what they will do. AP couldn't send people on these journeys if there wasn't a line of people with their wallets ready to buy tickets.

Yes and no.

First, I certainly don't approve of anyone being treated like dirt, meaning, being spoken to sarcastically, harshly, etc. I hold no excuses for treating customers rudely, although unlike some, I take the position that the customer also has an obligation. Ive seen it first-hand, in watch boutiques, in my city. Customers walk in seemingly looking to pick a fight . . . or their wholly entitled selves cannot help themselves. If someone believes that they are entitled to treat the staff however they wish, because "The customer is king / always right," well, sorry but no that's not how we work in polite society.

Second, there are only two ways to avoid "this game." (A) produce enough goods to essentially totally meet the instantaneous demand. Or (B) simply sell on a first-come-first-served basis.

MANY luxury brands can do (A) (either because they can or they will). I have ZERO issues buying a lovely Loro Piana polo shirt. They cost $650-$990 and by every measure are over-the-top luxury items. There is no scarcity and if the shop doesn't have my exact size and color, they get it in within days. But of course due to the manufacturing process, well it takes a lot longer and a lot more people to make a watch than a polo shirt.

With the supply vs. demand numbers as it has been with certain luxury watches for the past 8-10 years, I don't know how (B) could work. Have people line up on the sidewalk prior to opening to see what's come in? Use a lottery system that people register for? All of this ignores the fact that part of luxury marketing includes rewarding loyal customers with future access. I don't find that inherently evil.

[Akacoke]

One of the watch on his list of interest was available for sale immediately upon walk in. But it was never offered to him prior to that . There should at least the very minimum a mass generic email or text to inform people on the list . I guess this goes to show APs attitude towards collectors. They are too good to try and "sell" their watches. People come beg for them. You wonder why a lot of the veteran collectors are leaving and selling off all their APs. All the threads here have legitimate reasons. AP is just riding the hype train till they can't anymore and gonna stay down for decades to come due to their own decisions.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by Akacoke

One of the watch on his list of interest was available for sale immediately upon walk in. But it was never offered to him prior to that . There should at least the very minimum a mass generic email or text to inform people on the list . I guess this goes to show APs attitude towards collectors. They are too good to try and "sell" their watches. People come beg for them. You wonder why a lot of the veteran collectors are leaving and selling off all their APs. All the threads here have legitimate reasons. AP is just riding the hype train till they can't anymore and gonna stay down for decades to come due to their own decisions.

Honestly a lot of people are projecting some negative experiences into a thread that is nonsensical...

Bartolo summed it up best. OP literally walked in AND WAS OFFERED the watch that he had on his wish list. Pardon the SA for not just cold calling all folks on a list like they're selling CutCo knives...

He COULD HAVE HAD AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE where the SA on a random walking literally offered him the watch he wanted.

Rather than taking it and having a great day and mentioning that he'd love to stay in touch and hopefully a jumbo will be part of the ongoing relationship, OP now decided holding a grudge is the way to get what he wants... Good luck with that...

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by messikens

Honestly a lot of people are projecting some negative experiences into a thread that is nonsensical...

Bartolo summed it up best. OP literally walked in AND WAS OFFERED the watch that he had on his wish list. Pardon the SA for not just cold calling all folks on a list like they're selling CutCo knives...

He COULD HAVE HAD AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE where the SA on a random walking literally offered him the watch he wanted.

Rather than taking it and having a great day and mentioning that he'd love to stay in touch and hopefully a jumbo will be part of the ongoing relationship, OP now decided holding a grudge is the way to get what he wants... Good luck with that...

Who are we kidding here? We all know at this point it takes way more than hope and luck to get an allocation for jumbo. Unless you own kith, AP will sell u each openwork in all metals/ceramic without the "journey".

I wonder How it's gonna be an amazing experience knowing what supposed to be a memorable experience become just a transaction a random SA filled his sales target for ?

I'm 100% with OP here IMO he made the right call to decline it. We are not checking an item off grocery shopping list here, talking about a luxury watch purchase. I see we are very divided how we look at walking in a piece on our list. In OP's situation he doesn't know the SA at least not very well I assume, so this was not a surprise like " oh hey btw surprise. your watch is here!" It's more like "oh you know what. While I just checking your profile 5 mins after your showed up for your appointment. I noticed one of the watch you have on your list is in stock. management allow me sell it. We are not gonna bother calling anyone because we are AP. Here, you can have it for $45k . And oh btw the moment you walk out the door it's worth $35k but who cares. Next guys is gonna fight you for it".

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by messikens

Honestly a lot of people are projecting some negative experiences into a thread that is nonsensical...

Bartolo summed it up best. OP literally walked in AND WAS OFFERED the watch that he had on his wish list. Pardon the SA for not just cold calling all folks on a list like they're selling CutCo knives...

He COULD HAVE HAD AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE where the SA on a random walking literally offered him the watch he wanted.

Rather than taking it and having a great day and mentioning that he'd love to stay in touch and hopefully a jumbo will be part of the ongoing relationship, OP now decided holding a grudge is the way to get what he wants... Good luck with that...

Totally agree and basically said the same. Don't get why some feel the need to feed a delusional narrative as the OP admitted he screwed himself out of a watch he wanted simply because he'd rather shoot himself in the foot than allow the SA to offer him the watch then and there instead of calling him first without him having to ask for the watch again. Good luck in life with that attitude and I'm sure a lucky person is now enjoying what could have been your watch.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by dannyboy123

whats a nomad?

It’s like a come to your house masseuse. They to provide services when you are in an inconvenient location with no boutique/parlor nearby.

Some nomads are quite powerful and receive significant allocations. They can grant happy endings with impunity.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by GW44

Well, the G is certainly for Gareth.

The W is clearly for Wan***

And the 44 is my IQ, on a good day, obvs 🙄

As you were team

You sure it’s not “Giant Wang, 44 cm?” :)

[Time Bandit]

Originally Posted by EdwardC

We should ask whose 15300 didn't have the crown coming out after 5+ years? I think it happens to everyone I know of.

Surprisingly the 15450 and 15400 models didn't have this problem despite the same movement.

The crown came out of my 15400. One of several issues with it. Many fedex journeys to Clearwater.