Lost the Love

[Token74]

As the title says, I’ve lost the love for AP, with my most recent experience at AP House in London being the final straw.

For context, I currently have four AP references (Royal Oak 15450, Royal Oak 15300, Royal Oak Offshore Diver 15710 and a Royal Oak Offshore Chrono 26480ti). I bought all of these (along with another 15450 that came and went) on the grey market apart from the 26480 which was the only one I could get from AP House.

I’ve been disappointed in the quality of the movements, with the 15300 recently needing to go in for a repair thanks to a screw coming out in the movement, this only three years after being repaired due to the crown coming out (a common fault) and this is despite it being rarely worn. The movement of the 26480 is also pretty bad, with it being impossible to set the time correctly as the hand moves when pushing in the crown, only very slightly, but enough for it to feel a bit cheap.

The quality issues alone have not been enough to put me off, as the design and finishing of the watches has been so good that I’m prepared to suffer a little, but my recent experience at AP House, which should all be about experience, was so poor that frankly the brand has lost it’s lustre for me.

I booked to visit on a Friday at mid-day as myself and my wife were due to be in London and the 15300 needed to go in for repair. On arrival they seemed unprepared for our visit and seemingly wanted us in and out quickly. I asked if we could see some watches as it’s my 50th this year and will be marking the occasion with a watch. Reluctantly they fetched some watches although not the ones I wanted to see as they didn’t have any, albeit they didn’t say that, they just presented a tray of 5 random watches.

I then asked them to show me a gold Code 11:59 which I did really like, I wasn’t totally sold as there are other watches I’d prefer and it feels like a compromise, but it was interesting nonetheless. At no point did the sales guy show any interest in actually selling me a watch, and as many sales guys before will attest, I’m quite impulsive and easy to sell to!! So an opportunity lost, but it all fitted with the general apathy of the service.

Whilst there I noted that is expressed interest in a 15202 four years ago, and again when buying the 26480 three years so, but had heard nothing. I also noted that I’d expressed interest in the Taupe Offshore, at which point (having ignored the 15202 comment) he said they have one in stock and I could have it. I was then pretty grumpy, firstly because he ignored the 15202 comment and secondly because they hadn’t bothered contacting me about the Taupe Offshore, so I declined.

We left AP House somewhat disenchanted. I then received an email two weeks ago saying my watch had been repaired and asking whether I’d like to collect or have it delivered. I emailed back saying I was going away in a few days time so if it could be delivered before going away, that would be great. The response to my email was so slow that I’d long since left for my holiday.

To put this level of service in perspective, I’ve just bought a used boat from Ribeye in the Uk and I wrote to them cheekily asking for a cap as the friend I bought it with got one when the boat was delivered. I got a reply within hours apologising that there were no caps, but offering me two T-Shirts. They then wrote the next day saying there would be a two-week wait which they were sorry for, but saying they wanted to let me know as they didn’t want me to think they’d forgotten. I responded saying no problem, but could we have one in Medium and in Small, as my wife was grumpy that I was getting two and hadn’t asked for one for her. Ribeye responded immediately saying no problem, have two in Medium and two in Small. Proper service - it’s not even the offer of T-Shirts that’s got me, its the immediacy of the responses unlike AP (note: I had previously suggested to AP when buying my 26480 that I’d love a golf top or AP Cap - O don’t actually care that I’ve never received one as they don’t owe me anything, but the difference between Ribeye service and AP service is vast.

Apologies for the rant, thank you for humouring me


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[VogelPhoenix]

Disappointing to hear, in particular coming from someone who didn't just hop on the hype train a couple of years ago. I wonder if one of the happy clients of the London AP house has a pointer on how to move forward (if there's any interest in doing so).

[Token74]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Disappointing to hear, in particular coming from someone who didn't just hop on the hype train a couple of years ago. I wonder if one of the happy clients of the London AP house has a pointer on how to move forward (if there's any interest in doing so).

No interest in doing so, once it’s gone it’s gone. But, the big positive of my overall AP experience has been people like you and some of the other top guys here who have been the friendliest and coolest people I’ve met on any forum


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[Vipes]

It’s a shame we’re continuing to hear poor customer service from the boutiques. I thought with the market cooling off that their service would improve but I guess they still have no issues selling watches.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Token74

At no point did the sales guy show any interest in actually selling me a watch, and as many sales guys before will attest, I’m quite impulsive and easy to sell to!! So an opportunity lost, but it all fitted with the general apathy of the service.

Just to pick on one point -- the "complaints" about ADs (not just AP ADs) range from "I ask all the time and they have no watches for me to buy" to "I didn't ask if any were for sale and they showed no interest in wanting to sell me a watch."

My irony meter went off!

[APhound]

Sick of hearing it.
I cringe hearing all these experiences, I really can’t imagine treating customers this way.
After college I moved to Denver and got a job at one of the watch/ jewelry stores so I actually have experience doing this job.
I’ve since then had disappointing experiences at AP boutiques but also Rolex, Patek etc. I’m always blown away, I really don’t understand it. Not that this should matter but especially when it’s clear the customer is a collector, owns several watches of the brand, is wearing something fun- none of that ever matters anymore it seems.
I was lucky to ultimately get hooked up with a nomad for ap that has been really good to me but outside of that I only buy grey. I can’t even stand the thought of going into a watch/ jewelry store (AD) to get a watch. I still enjoy going in to watch stores to look especially while traveling but it’s a waste of time unless it’s a grey type dealer. Sucks


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[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by APhound

I still enjoy going in to watch stores to look especially while traveling but it’s a waste of time unless it’s a grey type dealer.

1. The AP Boutique in Boston -- fantastic staff. I've had NONE of the issues I continually read about here and elsewhere.

2. The AP House in Manhattan. Also, fantastic staff. I've had very nice sit-downs there, chatted with staff, tried on watches, and drank espresso :)

3. My last travel / watch boutique visit was to Tiny Jewel Box in Washington DC when I was there for a conference last year. I spent close to 2 hours in the store, saw quite a few interesting pieces, and was treated very well despite them knowing that Im from Boston and that I have relationships with ADs in my home city. (One way to make an instant connection is to mention who I work with at my local ADs. For example, one of the Patek sales staff in DC had recently been to Geneva with one of my Boston Patek people. This happens a lot; they all know each other.)

[APhound]

Ya actually I was just in aspen this weekend and had a great visit with them, they know my nomad and we had a nice connection there. Treated me very well. Even got three AP hats! Haha
But that same store two years ago told me they could never sell me a watch since I had sold an AP (that I bought grey for $50k over) but were extremely nice to me this time and knew I had a great relationship going with my nomad


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[NYG1121]

Sorry to hear @Token74. Your comparison wrist shots from back in the day were super helpful to me as I got into the brand. I too have been disappointed with AP over the past few years and have recently gone for a 15202st from grey dealer and called it quits with them. Too many brands and watches out there to deal with AP shenanigans.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Sorry to hear @Token74. Your comparison wrist shots from back in the day were super helpful to me as I got into the brand. I too have been disappointed with AP over the past few years and have recently gone for a 15202st from grey dealer and called it quits with them. Too many brands and watches out there to deal with AP shenanigans.

Sorry to hear you’ve also experienced the disappointing experience, but super-chuffed you’ve got yourself a 15202, epic!!


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[In-N-Out]

Sorry to hear. I think AP (and many other brands) experienced growing pains the last few years, not knowing how to deal with all that excessive demand. there will definitely be some bad SAs here and there.

if I had boat money (I'm not even close), I wouldn't want to feel disrespected either. part of the reason why im sticking with AP is that I don't want to waste time with PP/Rolex after feeling disrespected at most ADs the last 5-6 years. eventually I plan to explore deep into other brands when prices go down.

I think it might be worthwhile for you to explore PP/Rolex again and come back to AP when things level off. still a great brand in the long term, but maybe not right now in the short term with unprofessional /untrained SAs everywhere

[mickyd329]

So frustrating to see these types of experiences happen to good collectors like the OP. They really need to take better care of their clients that were with the brand pre-hype when hardly anyone knew what an AP was. Those are the very collectors that are going to help get them through the next down cycle. I feel like a lot of what AP wants to do in the customer experience arena gets lost in the translation from some subpar SA's that might not be the best to represent the brand.

[Vince_76]

Such bad business and unfortunate to treat longstanding enthusiasts (pre-hype) this way.

All I’ll say is that the tides are turning. I think there will come a time in the non-distant future where SAs need to work to earn one’s business.

Hang tight.

[AK797]

Its all gone downhill since they removed the table tennis table, now that was real customer service and real fun, didnt think it at the time but the thing symbolised the times well.

[joa]

i don't know why people think that when they step their foot into a watch boutique that they arrive in some sort of parallel universe, where physical and economical laws are suspended, they are to be catered to like royalty and in general the visit has to be choreographed like a state dinner for the sultan of Brunei... diplomatic gifts included...

[7sins]

Originally Posted by Token74

As the title says, I’ve lost the love for AP, with my most recent experience at AP House in London being the final straw.

For context, I currently have four AP references (Royal Oak 15450, Royal Oak 15300, Royal Oak Offshore Diver 15710 and a Royal Oak Offshore Chrono 26480ti). I bought all of these (along with another 15450 that came and went) on the grey market apart from the 26480 which was the only one I could get from AP House.

I’ve been disappointed in the quality of the movements, with the 15300 recently needing to go in for a repair thanks to a screw coming out in the movement, this only three years after being repaired due to the crown coming out (a common fault) and this is despite it being rarely worn. The movement of the 26480 is also pretty bad, with it being impossible to set the time correctly as the hand moves when pushing in the crown, only very slightly, but enough for it to feel a bit cheap.

The quality issues alone have not been enough to put me off, as the design and finishing of the watches has been so good that I’m prepared to suffer a little, but my recent experience at AP House, which should all be about experience, was so poor that frankly the brand has lost it’s lustre for me.

I booked to visit on a Friday at mid-day as myself and my wife were due to be in London and the 15300 needed to go in for repair. On arrival they seemed unprepared for our visit and seemingly wanted us in and out quickly. I asked if we could see some watches as it’s my 50th this year and will be marking the occasion with a watch. Reluctantly they fetched some watches although not the ones I wanted to see as they didn’t have any, albeit they didn’t say that, they just presented a tray of 5 random watches.

I then asked them to show me a gold Code 11:59 which I did really like, I wasn’t totally sold as there are other watches I’d prefer and it feels like a compromise, but it was interesting nonetheless. At no point did the sales guy show any interest in actually selling me a watch, and as many sales guys before will attest, I’m quite impulsive and easy to sell to!! So an opportunity lost, but it all fitted with the general apathy of the service.

Whilst there I noted that is expressed interest in a 15202 four years ago, and again when buying the 26480 three years so, but had heard nothing. I also noted that I’d expressed interest in the Taupe Offshore, at which point (having ignored the 15202 comment) he said they have one in stock and I could have it. I was then pretty grumpy, firstly because he ignored the 15202 comment and secondly because they hadn’t bothered contacting me about the Taupe Offshore, so I declined.

We left AP House somewhat disenchanted. I then received an email two weeks ago saying my watch had been repaired and asking whether I’d like to collect or have it delivered. I emailed back saying I was going away in a few days time so if it could be delivered before going away, that would be great. The response to my email was so slow that I’d long since left for my holiday.

To put this level of service in perspective, I’ve just bought a used boat from Ribeye in the Uk and I wrote to them cheekily asking for a cap as the friend I bought it with got one when the boat was delivered. I got a reply within hours apologising that there were no caps, but offering me two T-Shirts. They then wrote the next day saying there would be a two-week wait which they were sorry for, but saying they wanted to let me know as they didn’t want me to think they’d forgotten. I responded saying no problem, but could we have one in Medium and in Small, as my wife was grumpy that I was getting two and hadn’t asked for one for her. Ribeye responded immediately saying no problem, have two in Medium and two in Small. Proper service - it’s not even the offer of T-Shirts that’s got me, its the immediacy of the responses unlike AP (note: I had previously suggested to AP when buying my 26480 that I’d love a golf top or AP Cap - O don’t actually care that I’ve never received one as they don’t owe me anything, but the difference between Ribeye service and AP service is vast.

Apologies for the rant, thank you for humouring me


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Am I reading this correctly, you only bought one AP from an AD/House, a ROO and now are upset you weren't allocated a jumbo years later? Your grey market purchases have little to no impact on your purchase history with getting an allocation.

Unfortunately, the SA makes or breaks the experience, without a good relationship, don't expect anything.

[APhound]

He just wanted a nice shopping experience and was willing to be sold a gold code. He didn’t demand a 16202 and then lose his temper


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by AK797

Its all gone downhill since they removed the table tennis table, now that was real customer service and real fun, didnt think it at the time but the thing symbolised the times well.

They did? Disappointing - I was looking forward to embarrassing myself there, if I ever made it to the London AP House I think AP should be careful not to abandon a bit of fun in favor of corporate slickness.

[Son Goku]

Originally Posted by 7sins

Am I reading this correctly, you only bought one AP from an AD/House, a ROO and now are upset you weren't allocated a jumbo years later? Your grey market purchases have little to no impact on your purchase history with getting an allocation.

Unfortunately, the SA makes or breaks the experience, without a good relationship, don't expect anything.

Completely agree.

I'm also incredibly confused by this entire post as it sounds like OP was immediately offered the ROO they expressed interest in and then turned it down simply because the SA glossed over their comment about the 15202 and because they hadn't previously contacted you about the ROO? OP you do realize that AP has considerably long interest lists for each model and unless you're top of mind for an SA you likely won't get contacted out of the blue especially if you're not regularly visiting a store.

Not sure what you were expecting OP considering AP makes only 2k jumbos per year across all the metals and as 7sins correctly pointed out your grey market purchases don't mean much to AP or any SA when they have a very long list of clients with multiple purchases directly from the brand that are still waiting to be allocated a jumbo.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by joa

i don't know why people think that when they step their foot into a watch boutique that they arrive in some sort of parallel universe, where physical and economical laws are suspended, they are to be catered to like royalty and in general the visit has to be choreographed like a state dinner for the sultan of Brunei... diplomatic gifts included...

Well, paying car or house (downpayment) money for a trinket of minimal functionality better come with suspension of some of the usual economic norms.

It doesn't make much sense for AP to open the AP house palaces in prime locations in the most expensive cities, if the customer service then doesn't live up to the promises. My own experiences have been mostly good to excellent, and some of the horror stories here seemed to miss salient details, but it's clear that not all the SAs are able to handle the difficult situation they're in equally well.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by APhound

He just wanted a nice shopping experience and was willing to be sold a gold code. He didn’t demand a 16202 and then lose his temper


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Spot on


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[Token74]

Originally Posted by Son Goku

Completely agree.

I'm also incredibly confused by this entire post as it sounds like OP was immediately offered the ROO they expressed interest in and then turned it down simply because the SA glossed over their comment about the 15202 and because they hadn't previously contacted you about the ROO? OP you do realize that AP has considerably long interest lists for each model and unless you're top of mind for an SA you likely won't get contacted out of the blue especially if you're not regularly visiting a store.

Not sure what you were expecting OP considering AP makes only 2k jumbos per year across all the metals and as 7sins correctly pointed out your grey market purchases don't mean much to AP or any SA when they have a very long list of clients with multiple purchases directly from the brand that are still waiting to be allocated a jumbo.

Apologies for confusing you.

I’ve no issue with not getting a 15202 or now a 16202, i wanted one because it is a smarter look than the 15300 but equally I do have the 15300 and 15450 so I’m not desperate for a 16202. I also have no sense of entitlement for one hence why I’ve not been chasing. However, the way the comment was dismissed was poor in my view.

As for them not contacting me about the ROO - yes, I do think it’s really poor if they take your name down and put it on their system and you then leave it with them in good faith that when they are able to allocate one to you, they will be in touch, and then this doesn’t happen. IF AP opened AP House to be the experiential brand they are marketing themselves as, this is not representative of what I expect (especially as to some extent with high end products, you are paying for the experience).

And yes, I’ve been in this game long enough to know how many people they have interest in their watches (maybe you have more experience than me, but I think I have enough). I also know that grey history only counts for so much when it cones to allocating a high demand piece (even though I only went grey because I couldn’t get an allocation from AP). But I also know that AP talks about being part of the family, and as someone that collects their watches and takes them to AP for servicing and repair, I thought the service was really poor and apathetic.

Compared to my Rolex AD experience over the last 10 years, AP is miles off the pace.

I should also note that this was supposed to be less of a complaint and more of a ‘Lost the Love’ for a brand that I had been a huge advocate of and a brand that had seemingly focused on experience which I really bought into and had shouted from the rooftops about. Maybe my writing wasn’t as good as it should be,m.


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[WatchEater666]

I get it. An APRO was my second “expensive” watch purchase many years ago. I thought I would end up with quite a few but after selling my Millenary recently I’m at 0 again lol.

You may want to consider some independents like MB&F, Armin Strom, or Romain Gauthier - all of which are well known for awesome customer service. For me personally, it’s a big reason I’ve moved my watch budget to independents. Not to mention they simply make a better watch for the dollar.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I get it. An APRO was my second “expensive” watch purchase many years ago. I thought I would end up with quite a few but after selling my Millenary recently I’m at 0 again lol.

You may want to consider some independents like MB&F, Armin Strom, or Romain Gauthier - all of which are well known for awesome customer service. For me personally, it’s a big reason I’ve moved my watch budget to independents. Not to mention they simply make a better watch for the dollar.

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[Vivalas]

I totally get it Vince and like all of us, we can only go on personal experience.

I'm going to be slightly biased as my experience with AP House London has been fantastic. In the 4 years I've dealt with them, there was only one time when I didn't think it was that great - one phone call more than corrected that.

It sounds like you've given up, but maybe they are worth contacting one more time and just be totally honest about your thoughts. You've nothing to lose (accept pride and dignity - that's a joke by the way people ) but I suspect if they hear you out the outcome may be positive going forward.

[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Token74

As for them not contacting me about the ROO - yes, I do think it’s really poor if they take your name down and put it on their system and you then leave it with them in good faith that when they are able to allocate one to you, they will be in touch, and then this doesn’t happen.

This is not how it works. As it's clear you know, any single service advisor has orders of magnitude more "names on a list" than watches to deliver from year to year. If you think that it's a one-and-done proposition of showing up, putting your name on a list, and then sitting by the phone waiting for the text or email . . . that's just not how it works.

When a watch comes in and it's that service advisor's turn to sell it (yes, there is a rotation at any given boutique for many of the pieces) how do they pick who gets it? (A) There's a bit of an algorithm involved . . . as prior purchase history (and no not gray) is ALWAYS relevant. (B) There's human nature involved. Meaning, if the service advisor can't remember who "Michael Smith" is because Mr. Smith put his name on the list 18 months ago and hasn't been seen since . . . it ain't gonna happen. And (C) the manager gets a say in, I think, 100% of the decisions. The service advisor has to be able to say a sentence or two as to why Michael Smith and not any of the 87 other names on the list should get this one.

(C) is where many readers will respond with, "I'm not going to grovel" and "I'm not going to prostrate myself just to by an overprice luxury item that costs as much as a nice car." That's all well and good. Buy gray where you don't have to do that.

And STOP YELLING AT THE CLOUDS GRANDPA SIMPSONS.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by Bartolo

This is not how it works. As it's clear you know, any single service advisor has orders of magnitude more "names on a list" than watches to deliver from year to year. If you think that it's a one-and-done proposition of showing up, putting your name on a list, and then sitting by the phone waiting for the text or email . . . that's just not how it works.

When a watch comes in and it's that service advisor's turn to sell it (yes, there is a rotation at any given boutique for many of the pieces) how do they pick who gets it? (A) There's a bit of an algorithm involved . . . as prior purchase history (and no not gray) is ALWAYS relevant. (B) There's human nature involved. Meaning, if the service advisor can't remember who "Michael Smith" is because Mr. Smith put his name on the list 18 months ago and hasn't been seen since . . . it ain't gonna happen. And (C) the manager gets a say in, I think, 100% of the decisions. The service advisor has to be able to say a sentence or two as to why Michael Smith and not any of the 87 other names on the list should get this one.

(C) is where many readers will respond with, "I'm not going to grovel" and "I'm not going to prostrate myself just to by an overprice luxury item that costs as much as a nice car." That's all well and good. Buy gray where you don't have to do that.

And STOP YELLING AT THE CLOUDS GRANDPA SIMPSONS.

I’ve been collecting for many years and it’s how it worked with Patek for me, and how it’s always worked with Rolex for me, and indeed how it worked previously with AP and the 26480. So thanks, but no thanks.


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[Token74]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

I totally get it Vince and like all of us, we can only go on personal experience.

I'm going to be slightly biased as my experience with AP House London has been fantastic. In the 4 years I've dealt with them, there was only one time when I didn't think it was that great - one phone call more than corrected that.

It sounds like you've given up, but maybe they are worth contacting one more time and just be totally honest about your thoughts. You've nothing to lose (accept pride and dignity - that's a joke by the way people ) but I suspect if they hear you out the outcome may be positive going forward.

Hey Stephen, I’m sure you’re probably right. And you’re definitely right that pride will stop me (never a truer word than said in jest!!)!


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[Bartolo]

Originally Posted by Token74

I’ve been collecting for many years and it’s how it worked with Patek for me, and how it’s always worked with Rolex for me, and indeed how it worked previously with AP and the 26480. So thanks, but no thanks.

Absolutely it's your choice.

I would just add that "how it's always worked" has a time component, meaning, how it worked 10 years ago with any of these brands is not how it works today. And if you have SOLID relationships with sales associates, then your work is done and maintaining the relationship is a much lighter touch than establishing one.

I would posit that no you cannot walk into a Rolex or Patek AD today, with no relationship, and get a hype piece any easier than with AP. You can get a Datejust or OP easier than any AP I believe . . . but that's a numbers game and reflects the number of pieces the dealers get per month.

[GW44]

Sorry to read about your findings here Vince.

Like Stephen, I've only ever had good to excellent experiences of APH London in the time I have been dealing with the team there directly.

I'd echo what was also said about talking to someone at APH to share your feedback and would be surprised if they do not seek to remedy that for you if given the opportunity. I do know that they do look here at TRF sometimes so at some point they might become aware of your thoughts too.

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do here