WATERPROOF or WATERRESISTANT

[gmtmastersxm]

Rolex clearly states it roots are based on waterproofness, especially with the SD and DSSD models.
I am a diver and a spearfisher so going 25 - 75 ft below the surface is routine and happens a lot. The first day I bought my GMTIIC I went spearfishing to test it. My best friend, who dives with me, has a submariner and was trying to scare me about my watch's durability. After 3 hours of 0-30-0-30-0-30 ft (as we dont use tanks for spearfishing i have to catch my breath every couple minutes) my watch was still ticking perfectly underwater...
So here is where my question arises: Are ALL ROLEX WATCHES suited for diving? if so then should the size in mm's of the case back really matter ? The GMTIIC has triplock with 0.96mm caseback and the "Supercase". The Submariner has triplock , no super case, and I do not know the caseback size.

[Subexplorer]

hello gmtmastersxm!!

Rolex guarantees the GMT to 100 meters/330 ft, so it is completely safe to use at usual sport diving depths both for your free diving to around 30 ft, or sport scuba diving with air which settle around no more than 100/110 ft.
Though not designed specifically for diving like the Sub, being actually a pilot´s watch, you´ll enjoy using your GMT underwater within this depth range.
Enjoy you diving and your very fine watch!
Very cordially, Abel

[GMTJOHNNY]

I have gone surfing with my GMT and GMT II TT no issues, even after being smashed by some HUGE waves and nearly knocking myself out when the watch slamed me in the forehead! The same for diving like you. I even went diving down to 25 feet on a trip (up and down snorkeling for over an hour) with my gold Day Date on and no issues.
They are all good to 100 meters as stated above.
They are all awesom watches!

[jets]

In a lot of ways, the Submariner and GMT II are the same watch. Difference in terms of waterproofness (is that a word?) they are the same.

[daunwaun]

I believe all rolex's are waterproof

[Boopie]

Question...is it fair to assume that any Rolex watch with a Triplock crown will safely go the same depth as a Submariner can? I just don't know the answer, but I presume that it would be the case.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by daunwaun

I believe all rolex's are waterproof

I do not believe there is such a thing as a "water proof" watch" silicone liquid filled quartz watches like the Bell and Ross excepted. Rolex test the Deep Sea to a depth of 16,000 feet, but at twice that depth, I assume it will crush like a Coke can. Water proof would, in my mind, mean the watch could withstand any depth. No mechanical/automatic watch made today can, except for the above mentioned quartz liquid silicone filled ones (no air spaces inside the watch).

It was always fun to take a styrofoam cup to 100 feet down, and bring it back to the surface as it had shrunk to about 1/4 it's size.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Atl

I do not believe there is such a thing as a "water proof" watch" silicone liquid filled quartz watches like the Bell and Ross excepted. Rolex test the Deep Sea to a depth of 16,000 feet, but at twice that depth, I assume it will crush like a Coke can. Water proof would, in my mind, mean the watch could withstand any depth. No mechanical/automatic watch made today can.

The word "Waterproof" means just that...........water cannot enter the watch right up to the depth rated and certified by Rolex.

So if they say a Sub is 300m/1000 ft. waterproof, you can bet your last bottom dollar that the watch can very safely with a 100% guarantee of waterproofness, be submerged to the stipulated depth without any worries.

In fact, Rolex have gone one step further!! They have tested their watches to 125% of the rating...........so in reality, the Sub could go down to 1250 ft without batting an eyelid.

And you can take all of the above to the nearest bank!!

JJ

[Atl]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The word "Waterproof" means just that...........water cannot enter the watch right up to the depth rated and certified by Rolex.

So if they say a Sub is 300m/1000 ft. waterproof, you can bet your last bottom dollar that the watch can very safely with a 100% guarantee of waterproofness, be submerged to the stipulated depth without any worries.

In fact, Rolex have gone one step further!! They have tested their watches to 125% of the rating...........so in reality, the Sub could go down to 1250 ft without batting an eyelid.

And you can take all of the above to the nearest bank!!

JJ

I agree, but take issue with the word "water proof" water resistant, certified to a prescribed depth, in my mind, is more accurate. But I am really nit picking. Does nit picking get me closer to: Tosser in training???

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Atl

I agree, but take issue with the word "water proof" water resistant, certified to a prescribed depth, in my mind, is more accurate. But I am really nit picking. Does nit picking get be Tosser in training???

Only if you nit-pick with me, ya tosser!!

[daunwaun]

Originally Posted by Atl

I do not believe there is such a thing as a "water proof" watch" silicone liquid filled quartz watches like the Bell and Ross excepted. Rolex test the Deep Sea to a depth of 16,000 feet, but at twice that depth, I assume it will crush like a Coke can. Water proof would, in my mind, mean the watch could withstand any depth. No mechanical/automatic watch made today can, except for the above mentioned quartz liquid silicone filled ones (no air spaces inside the watch).

It was always fun to take a styrofoam cup to 100 feet down, and bring it back to the surface as it had shrunk to about 1/4 it's size.

Every rolex would be waterproof to as far as a man would take it. Maybe a deep sea diver which is 1 in 1 million men would push any rolex past its limit.

and that can be taken to the bank!!

[Atl]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Only if you nit-pick with me, ya tosser!!

I kinda knew that. Here's a tip, If you buy the button fly Levi's jeans, your sheep won't run when they hear the zipper!

Any points now????

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Boopie

Question...is it fair to assume that any Rolex watch with a Triplock crown will safely go the same depth as a Submariner can? I just don't know the answer, but I presume that it would be the case.

The extra depth rateing for the triplock dont just come from triplock. In the Sub and SD case and case back are thicker in say GMT11, SD has a thicker crystal too.

[1000ftSub]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The word "Waterproof" means just that...........water cannot enter the watch right up to the depth rated and certified by Rolex.

So if they say a Sub is 300m/1000 ft. waterproof, you can bet your last bottom dollar that the watch can very safely with a 100% guarantee of waterproofness, be submerged to the stipulated depth without any worries.

In fact, Rolex have gone one step further!! They have tested their watches to 125% of the rating...........so in reality, the Sub could go down to 1250 ft without batting an eyelid.

And you can take all of the above to the nearest bank!!

JJ

indeed

[sevykor]

"Waterproof" is deceptive with respect to Rolex because it implies the watch can withstand a specific depth. You need to consider that was the case when the watch was purchased NEW, but seals go bad after a while and effect how well the watch resists water pressure. If you have been wearing the watch a few years, it's a good idea to have it checked. Many local ADs will have the instruments to check for you without having to send your watch to a RSC. If the watch has poor or missing o rings, you will get leaks. Even a $50 Casio can be "waterproof" but only if it has been tested to a specific depth.

[Atl]

More nit picking, but I am serious! "water proof" can really only mean: NO water any time, at any depth. Water resistant, means a watch is rated at a given depth. A truly "waterproof" watch can only mean a liquid filled silicone watch like the Bell and Ross model, that has no air in it's insides. That is an example of a truly "water proof watch". There is no "water proof" Rolex. A Deep Sea is NOT "water proof" at 3200 ft. under water. It is water resistant to a measured depth. Only a liquid filled watch, unaffected by water pressure, is "water proof" to any depth. Okay?

[snow_rocks]

Only Rolex Oysters are water (what-ever). Remember the Celini line of 'lexes!

Now David (Atl), if I chose to dive only in Lake Erie, with my Sub 1680, and nowhere else, then I can say that my Subbie is truly waterproof to any depth in that lake, provided the seals are proper! I leave it to you to verify the depth of this lake.

It just becomes silly when you play semantically.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by snow_rocks

Only Rolex Oysters are water (what-ever). Remember the Celini line of 'lexes!

Now David (Atl), if I chose to dive only in Lake Erie, with my Sub 1680, and nowhere else, then I can say that my Subbie is truly waterproof to any depth in that lake, provided the seals are proper! I leave it to you to verify the depth of this lake.

It just becomes silly when you play semantically.

I'll stop being silly, I give up. It's not a big deal anyway. BTW, the deepest spot in Lake Erie is 210 ft.

[rad87gn]

Rolex Oysters are "Swimpruf".

[Earl Camembert]

Rolex watches are water resistant in the US of A as it is against the law to advertise a wrist watch as being waterproof. The rest of the world is not subject the the FTC so their Rolex watches are waterproof.

For your edification I give you the USA, first, and the world English Rolex description. Notice more polysyllabic words in the US version.

[Atl]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Rolex watches are water resistant in the US of A as it is against the law to advertise a wrist watch as being waterproof. The rest of the world is not subject the the FTC so their Rolex watches are waterproof.

For your edification I give you the USA, first, and the world English Rolex description. Notice more polysyllabic words in the US version.

I rest my case your Honor.

[Andad]

That 'water resistant' Rolex HAS to be 'waterproof' - it's the same watch in both pixs.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by directioneng

That 'water resistant' Rolex HAS to be 'waterproof' - it's the same watch in both pixs.

I know in the monarchy English is a second language; I have the same problem with Canadians. One must read the right hand page in both the civilized US version (top) and the world version (bottom). One cannot just look at the pictures. Insert your "dummy read" smiles here.


What I'm saying is waterproof and water resistant are the same thing only one cannot use the term waterproof in the US when referring to a wrist watch in a commercial manner.

Say waterproof go to jail.

[neillfrith]

Waterproof and water resitant are 2 seperate things (as we all know). When you put a qualifier in the sentence i.e. waterproof to 100m, then the sentence is correct. If you were using waterproof as an absolute then rolex would be wrong. As far as I can see they have always qualified it with a depth.

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by gmtmastersxm

Rolex clearly states it roots are based on waterproofness, especially with the SD and DSSD models.
I am a diver and a spearfisher so going 25 - 75 ft below the surface is routine and happens a lot. The first day I bought my GMTIIC I went spearfishing to test it. My best friend, who dives with me, has a submariner and was trying to scare me about my watch's durability. After 3 hours of 0-30-0-30-0-30 ft (as we dont use tanks for spearfishing i have to catch my breath every couple minutes) my watch was still ticking perfectly underwater...
So here is where my question arises: Are ALL ROLEX WATCHES suited for diving? if so then should the size in mm's of the case back really matter ? The GMTIIC has triplock with 0.96mm caseback and the "Supercase". The Submariner has triplock , no super case, and I do not know the caseback size.

The crystal, crystal gaskets, crown, crown gaskets and caseback gaskets are the same for the GMTIIc and the Submariner. The only difference is the thickness of the caseback, which is 1.51 mm for the Submariner.

I know a GMTIIc and a YM (same thickness of caseback as Explorer II, GMT, GMT 16710) that have been tested to 300 meters of pressure with no problems.

ANY modern Rolex Oyster is good for diving well beyond the hobby diver's depths.

Applying some rudimentary materials science on the crystal and caseback gives that bending starts to occur at a depth well below 300 meters, and the crystal might crack on the other side of 500 meters. The triplock crown is good for 500 (!) bars of pressure, and if the twinlock only can take 100 bars, I am happy with that. (Do not have the exact figure for twinlock, but it is NOT the weak point. The caseback bending is.)

Best,

A

[snow_rocks]

Water-resistant, adjective; able to resist the penetration of water to some degree but not entirely.

Waterproof, adjective; impervious to water.

In the United States, we might want to reconsider taking our DSSDs into the shower, being that to some degree, the DSSDs are only water-resistant!

I'm sure the FTC was concerned with this, as much in preventing litigious actions dealing with dive watches.

But on the bright side, GoreTex is not labeled anywhere on our Subs!

[gmtmastersxm]

Originally Posted by acce1999

The crystal, crystal gaskets, crown, crown gaskets and caseback gaskets are the same for the GMTIIc and the Submariner. The only difference is the thickness of the caseback, which is 1.51 mm for the Submariner.

I know a GMTIIc and a YM (same thickness of caseback as Explorer II, GMT, GMT 16710) that have been tested to 300 meters of pressure with no problems.

ANY modern Rolex Oyster is good for diving well beyond the hobby diver's depths.

Applying some rudimentary materials science on the crystal and caseback gives that bending starts to occur at a depth well below 300 meters, and the crystal might crack on the other side of 500 meters. The triplock crown is good for 500 (!) bars of pressure, and if the twinlock only can take 100 bars, I am happy with that. (Do not have the exact figure for twinlock, but it is NOT the weak point. The caseback bending is.)

Best,

A

Thanks A, some very informative figures ! Now, I wonder if it is possible to have Rolex install a Submariner case back on my GMTIIC...just for extra strength, and to be unique.

[MagedMS]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

The word "Waterproof" means just that...........water cannot enter the watch right up to the depth rated and certified by Rolex.

So if they say a Sub is 300m/1000 ft. waterproof, you can bet your last bottom dollar that the watch can very safely with a 100% guarantee of waterproofness, be submerged to the stipulated depth without any worries.

In fact, Rolex have gone one step further!! They have tested their watches to 125% of the rating...........so in reality, the Sub could go down to 1250 ft without batting an eyelid.

And you can take all of the above to the nearest bank!!

JJ

Thank you JJ for this information about the 125% of the rating.. But may I ask you from where did you get this information and if it is officially announced by Rolex ?
..And is this applied to all Rolex models or just the professional diving models (Deep Sea/Submariner)?

[Alcan]

The International Organization for Standardization issued a standard for water resistant watches which also prohibits the term waterproof to be used with watches, which many countries have adopted. The international standard ISO 2281 Horology -- Water-resistant watches defines the water resistance of watches. This standard was only designed for watches intended for ordinary daily use and are resistant to water during exercises such as swimming for a short period. They may be used under conditions where water pressure and temperature vary. However, whether they bear an additional indication of overpressure or not, they are not intended for submarine diving.

The ISO 2281 standard specifies a detailed testing procedure for each mark that defines not only pressures but also test duration, water temperature, and other parameters. Besides this ISO 2859-2 Sampling plans indexed by limiting quality (LQ) for isolated lot inspection and ISO 2859-3 Sampling procedures for inspection by attributes -- Part 3: Skip-lot sampling procedures concerning procedures regarding lot sampeling testing come into play, since not every single watch has to be tested for ISO 2281 approval.

ISO 2281 water resistance testing of a watch consists of:

Resistance when immersed in water at a depth of 10 cm. Immersion of the watch in 10 cm of water for 1 hour.
Resistance of operative parts. Immersion of the watch in 10 cm of water with a force of 5 N perpendicular to the crown and pusher buttons (if any) for 10 minutes.
Condensation test. The watch shall be placed on a heated plate at a temperature between 40 °C and 45 °C until the watch has reached the temperature of the heated plate (in practice, a heating time of 10 minutes to 20 minutes, depending on the type of watch, will be sufficient). A drop of water, at a temperature of 18 °C to 25 °C shall be placed on the glass of the watch. After about 1 minute, the glass shall be wiped with a dry rag. Any watch which has condensation on the interior surface of the glass shall be eliminated.
Resistance to different temperatures. Immersion of the watch in 10 cm of water at the following temperatures for 5 minutes each, 40 °C, 20 °C and 40 °C again, with the transition between temperatures not to exceed 1 minute. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.
Resistance to water overpressure. Immersion of the watch in a suitable pressure vessel and subjecting it within 1 minute to the rated pressure for 10 minutes, or to 2 bar in case where no additional indication is given. Then the overpressure is reduced to the ambient pressure within 1 minute. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.
Resistance to air overpressure. Exposing the watch to an overpressure of 2 bar. The watch shall show no air-flow exceeding 50 μg/min.
No magnetic or shock resistance properties are required.
No negative pressure test is required.
No strap attachment test is required.
No corrosion test is required.
Except the thermal shock resistance test all further ISO 2281 testing should be conducted at 18 °C to 25 °C temperature. Regarding pressure ISO 2281 defines: 1 bar = 105 Pa = 105 N/m2.

In practice, the survivability of the watch will depend not only on the water depth, but also on the age of the sealing material, past damage, temperature, and additional mechanical stresses.

None of the tests defined by ISO 2281 are suitable to qualify a watch as a diving watch. ISO 2281 compliant watches are designed for everyday life and must be water resistant during exercises such as swimming for a short period. They can be worn in different temperature and pressure conditions but are under no circumstances designed for diving with underwater breathing apparatus.

[edit] ISO 6425 divers' watches standard
The standards and features for diving watches are regulated by the ISO 6425 - Divers' watches international standard. ISO 6425 defines such watches as: A watch designed to withstand diving in water at depths of at least 100 m and possessing a system to control the time. Diving watches are tested in static or still water under 125% of the rated (water)pressure, thus a watch with a 200 meter rating will be water resistant if it is stationary and under 250 meters of static water. The testing of the water resistance is fundamentally different from non-dive watches, because every watch has to be fully tested.

ISO 6425 water resistance testing of a diver's watch consists of:

Reliability under water. The watches under test shall be immersed in water to a depth of 30 cm ± 2 cm for 50 hours at 18 °C to 25 °C and all the mechanisms shall still function correctly. The condensation test shall be carried out before and after this test to ensure that the result is related to the above test.
Condensation test. The watch shall be placed on a heated plate at a temperature between 40 °C and 45 °C until the watch has reached the temperature of the heated plate (in practice, a heating time of 10 minutes to 20 minutes, depending on the type of watch, will be sufficient). A drop of water, at a temperature of 18 °C to 25 °C shall be placed on the glass of the watch. After about 1 minute, the glass shall be wiped with a dry rag. Any watch which has condensation on the interior surface of the glass shall be eliminated.
Resistance of crowns and other setting devices to an external force. The watches under test shall be subjected to an overpressure in water of 125% of the rated pressure/10 bar for 10 minutes and to an external force of 5 N perpendicular to the crown and pusher buttons (if any). The condensation test shall be carried out before and after this test to ensure that the result is related to the above test.
Water-tightness and resistance at a water overpressure. The watches under test shall be immersed in water contained in a suitable vessel. Then an overpressure of 125% of the rated pressure shall be applied within 1 minute and maintained for 2 hours. Subsequently the overpressure shall be reduced to 0.3 bar within 1 minute and maintained at this pressure for 1 hour. The watches shall then be removed from the water and dried with a rag. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.
Resistance to thermal shock. Immersion of the watch in 30 cm ± 2 cm of water at the following temperatures for 10 minutes each, 40 °C, 5 °C and 40 °C again. The time of transition from one immersion to the other shall not exceed 1 min. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.
An optional test originating from the ISO 2281 tests (but not required for obtaining ISO 6425 approval) is exposing the watch to an overpressure of 2 bar. The watch shall show no air-flow exceeding 50 μg/min.
Except the thermal shock resistance test all further ISO 6425 testing should be conducted at 18 °C to 25 °C temperature. Regarding pressure ISO 6425 defines: 1 bar = 105 Pa = 105 N/m2. The required 125% test pressure provides a safety margin against dynamic pressure increase events, water density variations (seawater is 2 to 5% denser than freshwater) and degradation of the seals.

Movement induced dynamic pressure increase is sometimes the subject of urban myths and marketing arguments for diver's watches with high water resistance ratings. When a diver makes a fast swimming movement of 10 m/s (32.8 ft/s) (the best competitive swimmers and finswimmers do not move their hands nor swim that fast[2]) physics dictates that the diver generates a dynamic pressure of 0.5 bar or the equivalent of 5 meters of additional water depth.[3]

Besides water resistance standards to a minimum of 100 meter (330 ft) depth rating ISO 6425 also provides minimum requirements for mechanical diver's watches (quartz and digital watches have slightly differing readability requirements) such as[4]:

The presence of a time-preselecting device, for example a unidirectional rotating bezel or a digital display. Such a device shall be protected against inadvertent rotation or wrong manipulation. If it is a rotating bezel, it shall have a minute scale going up to 60 min. The markings indicating every 5 min shall be clearly indicated. The markings on the dial, if existing, shall be coordinated with those of the preselecting device and shall be clearly visible. If the preselecting device is a digital display, it shall be clearly visible.
The following items of the watch shall be legible at a distance of 25 cm (9.84 in) in the dark:
time (the minute hand shall be clearly distinguishable from the hour hand);
set time of the time-preselecting device;
indication that the watch is running (This is usually indicated by a running second hand with a luminous tip or tail.);
in the case of battery-powered watches, a battery end-of-life indication.
The presence of an indication that the watch is running in total darkness. This is usually indicated by a running second hand with a luminous tip or tail.
Magnetic resistance. This is tested by 3 expositions to a direct current magnetic field of 4,800 A/m. The watch must keep its accuracy to +/- 30 seconds/day as measured before the test despite the magnetic field.
Shock resistance. This is tested by two shocks (one on the 9 o'clock side, and one to the crystal and perpendicular to the face). The shock is usually delivered by a hard plastic hammer mounted as a pendulum, so as to deliver a measured amount of energy, specifically, a 3 kg hammer with an impact velocity of 4.43 m/s. The change in rate allowed is +/- 60 seconds/day.
Resistance to salty water. The watches under test shall be put in a 30 g/l NaCl (sodium chloride) solution and kept there for 24 hours at 18 °C to 25 °C. This test water solution has salinity comparable to normal seawater. After this test, the case and accessories shall be examined for any possible changes. Moving parts, particularly the rotating bezel, shall be checked for correct functioning.
Resistance of attachments to an external force (strap/band solidity). This is tested by applying a force of 200 N (45 lbf) to each springbar (or attaching point) in opposite directions with no damage to the watch of attachment point. The bracelet of the watch being tested shall be closed.
Marking. Watches conforming to ISO 6425 are marked with the word DIVER’S WATCH L M or DIVER'S L M to distinguish diving watches from look a like watches that are not suitable for actual scuba diving. The letter L indicates the diving depth, in metres, guaranteed by the manufacturer.
[edit] Diver’s watches for mixed-gas diving
Diving at a great depth and for a long period is done in a diving chamber, with the diver spending time alternately in the water and in a pressurized environment, breathing a gas mixture. In this case, the watch is subjected to the pressure of the gas mixture and its functioning can be disturbed. Consequently, it is recommended to subject the watch to a special extra test. ISO 6425 defines a diver’s watch for mixed-gas diving as: A watch required to be resistant during diving in water to a depth of at least 100 m and to be unaffected by the overpressure of the mixed gas used for breathing.

The following specific additional requirements for testing of diver's watches for mixed-gas diving are provided by ISO 6425:

Test of operation at a gas overpressure. The watch is subject to the overpressure of gas which will actually be used, i.e. 125% of the rated pressure, for 15 days. Then a rapid reduction in pressure to the atmospheric pressure shall be carried out in a time not exceeding 3 minutes. After this test, the watch shall function correctly. An electronic watch shall function normally during and after the test. A mechanical watch shall function normally after the test (the power reserve normally being less than 15 days).
Test by internal pressure (simulation of decompression). Remove the crown together with the winding and/or setting stem. In its place, fit a crown of the same type with a hole. Through this hole, introduce the gas mixture which will actually be used and create an overpressure of the rated pressure/20 bar in the watch for a period of 10 hours. Then carry out the test at the rated water overpressure. In this case, the original crown with the stem shall be refitted beforehand. After this test, the watch shall function correctly.

[snow_rocks]

Shock resistance. This is tested by two shocks (one on the 9 o'clock side, and one to the crystal and perpendicular to the face). The shock is usually delivered by a hard plastic hammer mounted as a pendulum, so as to deliver a measured amount of energy, specifically, a 3 kg hammer with an impact velocity of 4.43 m/s. The change in rate allowed is +/- 60 seconds/day.
Resistance to salty water. The watches under test shall be put in a 30 g/l NaCl (sodium chloride) solution and kept there for 24 hours at 18 °C to 25 °C. This test water solution has salinity comparable to normal seawater. After this test, the case and accessories shall be examined for any possible changes. Moving parts, particularly the rotating bezel, shall be checked for correct functioning.
Resistance of attachments to an external force (strap/band solidity). This is tested by applying a force of 200 N (45 lbf) to each springbar (or attaching point) in opposite directions with no damage to the watch of attachment point. The bracelet of the watch being tested shall be closed.
Marking. Watches conforming to ISO 6425 are marked with the word DIVER’S WATCH L M or DIVER'S L M to distinguish diving watches from look a like watches that are not suitable for actual scuba diving. The letter L indicates the diving depth, in metres, guaranteed by the manufacturer.



I hope our DSSD owners read this part and feel a bit more comfortable with their behemoths in everyday situations.

Funny though, I never noticed the L M markings on Rolexes.