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lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 08:34 PM

I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

Nairn1980 · 7 February 2010, 08:39 PM

Dont think they will answer this one directly....

However I believe that most of these sellers have great relationships with ADs and have done for many years.

With most ADs making 30-40% on a Rolex, there is still a market for a grey market if that makes sense.

Nairn

lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

Dont think they will answer this one directly....

However I believe that most of these sellers have great relationships with ADs and have done for many years.

With most ADs making 30-40% on a Rolex, there is still a market for a grey market if that makes sense.

Nairn

It seems to me that an AD could lose its status as a dealer by selling to the "Grey market" at such low prices. Would profits be so great so as to assume the risk of losing dealership status?

padi56 · 7 February 2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

I would doubt if anyone would tell you IMHO its there private business and not yours.If yourself or anyone reaps the benefits of a lower price and they are happy with the price paid what more could anyone ask.

Earl Camembert · 7 February 2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

If you want to make money or even brake even with a Rolex you can not pay MSRP. With the economy in such bad shape many people are selling there property to stay solvent. Find a motivate seller and squeeze him for what you can get out of him. It's not pretty but that is how it works.

lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padi56

I would doubt if anyone would tell you IMHO its there private business and not yours.If yourself or anyone reaps the benefits of a lower price and they are happy with the price paid what more could anyone ask.

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

Nairn1980 · 7 February 2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

It is not illegal at all...how could it be illegal?
These people buy from ADs at special prices because they have that relationship. They may buy hundreds of watches a year so get special prices.
They then can pass them on at a slight profit.

The profit may be small, but if they do this many times a year it can make a healthy figure.

However it is their business and they are never going to turn around and tell you how they do it etc...but thats what I make of it.

Here is another example.....as I'm scottish ill use the drink IRN-BRU.
RRP on a can of Irn-Bru is 65p.....Supermarkets buy truck loads of it, so get it at a better price than most people....as a result supermarkets sell this product for 49p.

It is not illegal, as Irn-Bru, the supermarket, AND the consumer win.

Hope that example helps...

Nairn

Earl Camembert · 7 February 2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

It is totally legal to buy a gray market new Rolex; the only risk is to the AD that sold them to another dealer wholesale. Not a legal risk but a risk of losing his AD status.

As for used watches of course that is legal; if you want to even brake even with a Rolex buying from and AD is not going to get it done.

padi56 · 7 February 2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

And why would buying from a grey source be illegal as long as any watch is not stolen or counterfeit. What difference does it make wherever you buy it from, the only difference is you will not get the Rolex warrany.But the Rolex
warranty is very seldom needed in the 2 year period anyway.Most grey dealers have there own warranty in many cases better or longer than the Rolex one.So if you have a genuine watch at a much cheaper price what more could anyone ask.And after any grey warranty period Rolex will be quite happy to service and take your money no matter where you bought from, then you will have Rolex service papers.

dieseldragon · 7 February 2010, 10:20 PM

Grey market watches are ones that are imported from outside your territory. Not ones were originally supplied to AD´s in your territory then some how offered at discount. There is a big difference in the terminology.

For example, if you live in the USA, a grey market watch would be one imported from Hong Kong, taking advantage of the better pricing there..

DarkHorse · 7 February 2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

There's nothing illegal about selling grey market products, nor should you even contemplate accusing any of the trusted and reliable sellers on this forum (some of whom have completed hundreds of transactions without issue) of doing anything dubious or dodgy unless you have evidence to support this claim.

Jason71 · 7 February 2010, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

Asking the question is one thing, but somehow thinking that you are "entitled" to know the business structure of some of our sellers here on TRF is disrespectful IMHO.

HOW IN THE WORLD COULD IT BE ILLEGAL??!!

Accept the fact that our sellers CAN sell at a discount, buy from them if you wish, and be glad that you are more savvy than the average Rolex buyer out there and have an inside track.

lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkhorse

there's nothing illegal about selling grey market products, nor should you even contemplate accusing any of the trusted and reliable sellers on this forum (some of whom have completed hundreds of transactions without issue) of doing anything dubious or dodgy unless you have evidence to support this claim.

dnftt

lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclevoy

Asking the question is one thing, but somehow thinking that you are "entitled" to know the business structure of some of our sellers here on TRF is disrespectful IMHO.

HOW IN THE WORLD COULD IT BE ILLEGAL??!!

Accept the fact that our sellers CAN sell at a discount, buy from them if you wish, and be glad that you are more savvy than the average Rolex buyer out there and have an inside track.

I never said I was entitled to know anything. I am entitled to ask any question I want because I live in a free country. Comprende ??

VetteBandit · 7 February 2010, 11:43 PM

You are entitled to ask the question and I think you know the answer......in buying a Rolex, or anything else for that matter, the savvy consumer must way the value of "price to pay" vs "velocity of transaction." It's kind of like buying a car....many walk up and pay sticker, others shop around for weeks or months and work for the best deal.

Buy low sell high(er)...as Jason said, we are lucky to have the option of buying from trusted sellers with quality product.

Jason71 · 7 February 2010, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I never said I was entitled to know anything. I am entitled to ask any question I want because I live in a free country. Comprende ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.

In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

Sounds like a feeling of entitlement to me

You will have to excuse my getting a bit riled up about this. It is just that I have used the good online sellers here for all but 1 of my 8 Rolexes. It has saved me untold THOUSANDS of dollars. They provide us with a fantastic service. I know that at least one of them here has VERY tight margins and doesn't make tons of money on the watches he sells. The only reason that he moves a pretty decent amount of inventory. Suggesting that they might be doing something "illegal" is disrespectful because the sellers that I have dealt with here operate on nothing but integrity. Their word is more important than most anything. If they say it, then it is the truth, and you can take that to the bank.

I have had them offer to ship me a watch before I have even paid for it because they have dealt with me before and shipment arrival and my ability to ge to the bank were issues. That is just a glimpse of their integrity

redsrover · 7 February 2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

THis is his real question I think.

lawdog530 · 7 February 2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jclevoy

Sounds like a feeling of entitlement to me

You will have to excuse my getting a bit riled up about this. It is just that I have used the good online sellers here for all but 1 of my 8 Rolexes. It has saved me untold THOUSANDS of dollars. They provide us with a fantastic service. I know that at least one of them here has VERY tight margins and doesn't make tons of money on the watches he sells. The only reason that he moves a pretty decent amount of inventory. Suggesting that they might be doing something "illegal" is disrespectful because the sellers that I have dealt with here operate on nothing but integrity. Their word is more important than most anything. If they say it, then it is the truth, and you can take that to the bank.

I have had them offer to ship me a watch before I have even paid for it because they have dealt with me before and shipment arrival and my ability to ge to the bank were issues. That is just a glimpse of their integrity

I didn't mean to rile you up. I just wanted to know why I had to pay full price but people here get discounts when I was told that the Rolex co. does not discount their watches. I'm sure I have inartfully asked my question and for that I apologize.

I'm new to this game (I only own 2 Rolex's) and I want in on a good thing but I like to play by the rules. When the dealer told me there is no discounts and I see discounts out the wa-zoo here, well... I had to ask how it's possible.

An informed consumer is a good consumer. You would agree with me on that wouldn't you??

BASSETHOUNDS · 7 February 2010, 11:54 PM

I buy from both AD & Grey market . I get reasonable discount from my AD because I have been a relative good customer and at the moment times are hard for most AD's . I recently bought from one of the reputable sellers here , because he could offer me the exact same watch cheaper then my AD ( the currency exchange made the difference ) This seller never broke the law in anyway , I on the other hand I had this watch brought back to Europe without paying the duties .

redsrover · 8 February 2010, 12:00 AM

Never pay retail at an AD. Never pay retail at a car dealership either. More importantly, learn to negotiate by leveraging your wallet. The re-sellers here understand the premium markup from AD's is gone by the time they list something in the For Sale forum. And of course an AD is going to tell you there is no authorized discount and they will run-down re-sellers or grey dealers as being either dishonest, or not selling a genuine piece with warranty.

Jason71 · 8 February 2010, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I didn't mean to rile you up. I just wanted to know why I had to pay full price but people here get discounts when I was told that the Rolex co. does not discount their watches. I'm sure I have inartfully asked my question and for that I apologize.

I'm new to this game (I only own 2 Rolex's) and I want in on a good thing but I like to play by the rules. When the dealer told me there is no discounts and I see discounts out the wa-zoo here, well... I had to ask how it's possible.

An informed consumer is a good consumer. You would agree with me on that wouldn't you??

That is the beauty of this forum. YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FULL PRICE!!

The answer to your question is easy. Low margins. The real question is how they get their inventory at a wholesale price. This is a trade secret that will go unanswered. I would like to believe that the Rolex elves bring them to our sellers at little or no cost so that the sellers can provide us with the Rolex crack for our addiction.

lawdog530 · 8 February 2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASSETHOUNDS

, I on the other hand I had this watch brought back to Europe without paying the duties .

But isn't NOT PAYING the duties an offense? Taxes and duty were my real concern. I wouldn't want to pay for an item and then it got confiscated for failure to pay tax/duty.

redsrover · 8 February 2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

But isn't NOT PAYING the duties an offense? Taxes and duty were my real concern. I wouldn't want to pay for an item and then it got confiscated for failure to pay tax/duty.

Are you serious?

lawdog530 · 8 February 2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsrover

Are you serious?

Serious as a lawn dart stuck in the front of your leg serious.

Earl Camembert · 8 February 2010, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

But isn't NOT PAYING the duties an offense? Taxes and duty were my real concern. I wouldn't want to pay for an item and then it got confiscated for failure to pay tax/duty.

Why wouldn't you pay the duty?

robsteve · 8 February 2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

But isn't NOT PAYING the duties an offense? Taxes and duty were my real concern. I wouldn't want to pay for an item and then it got confiscated for failure to pay tax/duty.

It may be, but another thing to think about is it insurable? A few years back some of my camera gear was stolen and the first thing the insurance adjuster asked was if I had a receipt for it and if it was bought outside of the country, do I have proof duty and taxes was paid. I had bought it locally at a local retailer, so it wasn't a problem. The adjuster informed me that they ask because they do not cover goods illegally brought into the country.

In the case of the sellers here, if you are in the USA and they are in the USA and purchase from them and get a receipt, I don't think it is a problem.

Robert

Earl Camembert · 8 February 2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robsteve

A few years back some of my camera gear was stolen and the first thing the insurance adjuster asked was if I had a receipt for it and if it was bought outside of the country, do I have proof duty and taxes was paid.

That is the way insurance hustle works; use any excuse to not pay a claim. I would change insurance carriers.

Earl · 8 February 2010, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

Has been beat to death. Just because it says MSRP don't mean everyone sells at that price, food does have to be put on the table!

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

It seems to me that an AD could lose its status as a dealer by selling to the "Grey market" at such low prices. Would profits be so great so as to assume the risk of losing dealership status?

What does it matter to you? Are you considering becoming a AD so, you are researching this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Well... I think it is my business because I want to buy at a substantial discount and not pay MSRP. If I'm not certain that buying from a gray market source is legal then I'm simply not going to buy from them.
In other words... I obey the law of the land but I like discounts, too.

Yes your money is your business "but how others make theirs is not" in the end it's your personal choice not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I never said I was entitled to know anything. I am entitled to ask any question I want because I live in a free country. Comprende ??

yes you can but, just remember this forum is not a democracy although most of us do live in free countries and some of us have even fought to defend your rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

But isn't NOT PAYING the duties an offense? Taxes and duty were my real concern. I wouldn't want to pay for an item and then it got confiscated for failure to pay tax/duty.

why are you stirring the pot? your spewing toilet water here and are not making sense in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Serious as a lawn dart stuck in the front of your leg serious.

as much as I'm sure this would hurt, your metaphor could better be used with "Will my Rolex still work if I'm struck by a lawn dart in the front of my leg and will I need to wind it after?"

So, keep it up lawdog530 and the forum will show you the door....

clarencek · 8 February 2010, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money.

How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

As far as I know the folks who sell online here in the forum don't have the overhead of a physical store or employees, etc. Their costs are probably very low by comparison which would allow them to offer pretty substantial discounts over a AD.

I have no idea where they source their watches, given some sell new, like new, used, etc. I imagine it's a mix, but I don't know.

Whether all this is legal in terms of reporting taxes, sales tax, duties, etc... beats me.

redsrover · 8 February 2010, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog530

Serious as a lawn dart stuck in the front of your leg serious.

Sounds pretty serious. Tell you what, to be on the safe side, just pay MSRP at your AD and don't worry yourself with the rest of us.

7 February 2010, 08:34 PM	#1
lawdog530 Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: alabama Posts: 76	How do you Rolex sellers do it ?? I mean... some of your sale prices are so low it's like you stole it or something. I couldn't get my AD to sell me my SD for less that MSRP yet you guys sell the same watch for $2K less than MSRP and apparently still make money. How do you do it (sell for so little) ??

7 February 2010, 10:20 PM	#10
dieseldragon "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Real Name: Ian Location: Spain Watch: Ω & ♛ Posts: 1,321	Grey market watches are ones that are imported from outside your territory. Not ones were originally supplied to AD´s in your territory then some how offered at discount. There is a big difference in the terminology. For example, if you live in the USA, a grey market watch would be one imported from Hong Kong, taking advantage of the better pricing there.. __________________ Rolex GMT, Zenith Chronomaster Sport, Zenith Pilot type 20 40mm, IWC mkXVI, Tudor BB58, Glashütte Original SeaQ 39. 5

7 February 2010, 11:43 PM	#15
VetteBandit "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: JP Location: USA Watch: All of them! Posts: 917	You are entitled to ask the question and I think you know the answer......in buying a Rolex, or anything else for that matter, the savvy consumer must way the value of "price to pay" vs "velocity of transaction." It's kind of like buying a car....many walk up and pay sticker, others shop around for weeks or months and work for the best deal. Buy low sell high(er)...as Jason said, we are lucky to have the option of buying from trusted sellers with quality product. __________________ ********************************* "Eveyone has a plan until they get punched in the face." Instagram: @30threejosh

8 February 2010, 12:00 AM	#20
redsrover "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Georgia Watch: Rolex GMTMaster II Posts: 432	Never pay retail at an AD. Never pay retail at a car dealership either. More importantly, learn to negotiate by leveraging your wallet. The re-sellers here understand the premium markup from AD's is gone by the time they list something in the For Sale forum. And of course an AD is going to tell you there is no authorized discount and they will run-down re-sellers or grey dealers as being either dishonest, or not selling a genuine piece with warranty. __________________ Rolex Explorer 14270, OMEGA Seamaster, OMEGA Speedmaster Professional, OMEGA Speedmaster Professional X-33, Sinn EZM3, IWC Mark XII, Tudor Heritage BB36

7 February 2010, 08:39 PM	#2
Nairn1980 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Watch: GMT Posts: 8,340	Dont think they will answer this one directly.... However I believe that most of these sellers have great relationships with ADs and have done for many years. With most ADs making 30-40% on a Rolex, there is still a market for a grey market if that makes sense. Nairn

7 February 2010, 11:54 PM	#19
BASSETHOUNDS Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: Tristan Location: GIRONA , SPAIN Watch: 116520/660/710/334 Posts: 7,147	I buy from both AD & Grey market . I get reasonable discount from my AD because I have been a relative good customer and at the moment times are hard for most AD's . I recently bought from one of the reputable sellers here , because he could offer me the exact same watch cheaper then my AD ( the currency exchange made the difference ) This seller never broke the law in anyway , I on the other hand I had this watch brought back to Europe without paying the duties .

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