Explorer II - 3185 / 3186 cut-off year

[tom_hanx]

Hi, after lurking here for months, I finally registered to ask a question which did not find answer on another watch forum...

Reading about the upcoming new ExpII (orange hand), I am even more excited believing there is a chance more Exp II will come to the pre-owned market. Hoping to seize this happy moment (if it happens at all), I am trying to find some info on the evolution of the model.

Talking strictly about the 40mm ExpII, is there any way to know based on serial no / year of production:

- which movement is inside (is it 3186 or 3185)
- is there a year of "transitional" year where both 3185 and 3186 were released
- is there a way to tell without opening the case if an Explorer holds a 3186?

Thanks!

[expy2]

No doubt you will soon be told to do the 'wobble' test, but to be honest, my cousin has both movements, and the 3186 24hr hand still sometimes wobbles so i don't think this method is conclusive. I think if you get a Z series you might get a 3186, M series you are highly likely to have the 3186, go for a V series and you WILL have a 3186. Mind you, both movements are A1 so i personally don't think it matters.

[JUSTROLEXES]

Welcome to TRF Tom,
M serial could have the 3185 and the 3186
V and newer will have the 3186 for sure

[padi56]

Well some M have been reported with the cal 3186 which is only a slightly modded 3185.The second time zone detent gear has been slightly modified plus it has the in-house hairspring and its around 2mm thicker and thats it in a nut shell.Plus one full crown turn on the 3186 will turn 8 hours on hour hand, while on the 3185 around 5 to 6. And only Rolex really knows when they started putting the 3186 in explorers.

[tom_hanx]

WOW, in just a few hours so detailed answers... you guys rock!

Am I correct in reading what is sneaking here between the lines... the difference between the 3185 and 3186 is not something worth obsessing about?

Given the case size/detail is the same for the past 5 or more years, is it worth paying extra for a "fresher" or newer release? Personally, I tend or prefer the 2005+ watches, that have the serial engraved on the bezel inner border but... could be convinced otherwise.

I like the white dial 16570, I believe they call it the "Polar"... How far back (in years/serial) do you think I can go in order to save me some cash and yet enjoy the looks and quality of one of them Polars...

Thanks for your comments and suggestions on how to get closer to getting one on my wrist

[Kanger]

Some people do not believe the hype in the 3186, but I believe it, maybe not in the Explorer II, but 100% in the GMT II. Look at the Explorer blackout in the E and X series and how much those pieces fetch, the 3186 will be that, AND more since the parachrom spring actually serves a function whereas the blackout was just an oddity. It's a numbers game; there are so few of the 3186 GMT and slightly more but still few Explorer 3186 that a premium will be had in years, and in the case of the GMT 3186, a premium is to be had now.

[renfield33]

If you are a WIS or person who can charge a premium for thr 3186, then it is important. Otherwise they both function perfectly as watches.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[expy2]

Originally Posted by kanger

Some people do not believe the hype in the 3186, but I believe it, maybe not in the Explorer II, but 100% in the GMT II. Look at the Explorer blackout in the E and X series and how much those pieces fetch, the 3186 will be that, AND more since the parachrom spring actually serves a function whereas the blackout was just an oddity. It's a numbers game; there are so few of the 3186 GMT and slightly more but still few Explorer 3186 that a premium will be had in years, and in the case of the GMT 3186, a premium is to be had now.

But there are thousands of explorer 2's with the 3186. They have had them from late Z series, nearly all the M series, all the V series and so on. They are hardly rare, they are the norm now.

[Kanger]

Originally Posted by expy2

But there are thousands of explorer 2's with the 3186. They have had them from late Z series, nearly all the M series, all the V series and so on. They are hardly rare, they are the norm now.

No, there are hundreds of thousands of them now, and that's why there is not a premium for them. Wait till next year when they are discontinued presumably, then I think there will be an ever SLIGHT increase distinguish between 3185 and 3186. As for the GMT, well you just need to look at what a 3186 GMT is selling for...

[expy2]

Originally Posted by kanger

No, there are hundreds of thousands of them now, and that's why there is not a premium for them. Wait till next year when they are discontinued presumably, then I think there will be an ever SLIGHT increase distinguish between 3185 and 3186. As for the GMT, well you just need to look at what a 3186 GMT is selling for...

Now i get you

[tom_hanx]

I could very well be wrong and confusing models here, but didn't the white ExpII get a new dial (maxi dial) not so long ago?

Can someone suggest how to spot the latest design compared to the previous release(s)?

[Kanger]

Originally Posted by tom_hanx

I could very well be wrong and confusing models here, but didn't the white ExpII get a new dial (maxi dial) not so long ago?

Can someone suggest how to spot the latest design compared to the previous release(s)?

No.

[tom_hanx]

Originally Posted by kanger

No.

To which part?

[subkrawler]

Originally Posted by tom_hanx

To which part?

No, they didn't get Maxi dials.

[George Ab]

I had a late Z Exp II that I confirmed used a 3186. The Serial number was Z818XXX. I had it opened by my watchmaker and visually verified. It also had the ROLEXROLEX around the rehaut.

The 3185/3186 issue is much ado about nothing. The most significant improvement of the two is the Parachrom spring which in other models such as 3135 when changed did not warrant a part number change.

[Andad]

The modifications made to the 3185 were enough for Rolex to assign the new movement a 3186 number.
The same Forum members continually play it down as play it up.

I would be interested to hear from our Rolex watchmakers for their professional opinion as to whether the 3186 movement is significantly different from the 3185 and does it deserves a premium in the limited GMT models and the current Explorer.

I would also be interested to know how many parts in a 3186 are not compatible with a 3185 movement as this would tell me just exactly how many modifications were made.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by renfield33

If you are a WIS or person who can charge a premium for thr 3186, then it is important. Otherwise they both function perfectly as watches.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Exactly but would doubt if any serious Rolex collector would pay a premium for a watch with just a minor movement mod.If they did well why is watches like the GMT Master 16750 with the cal 3175 not collectible less than 6- 9 months production.But that was before the Internet started,while the Internet is a fantastic place for information.Its also great for Rolex hype and to make the tiniest details like a simple font change,or slight movement mod to drive up the price.

[Casey VP-26]

Originally Posted by directioneng

The modifications made to the 3185 were enough for Rolex to assign the new movement a 3186 number.
The same Forum members continually play it down as play it up.

I would be interested to hear from our Rolex watchmakers for their professional opinion as to whether the 3186 movement is significantly different from the 3185 and does it deserves a premium in the limited GMT models and the current Explorer.

I would also be interested to know how many parts in a 3186 are not compatible with a 3185 movement as this would tell me just exactly how many modifications were made.

Thank You X2

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

Thank You X2

Have a look at post 45
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...pieces.&page=2

[Casey VP-26]

Thanks pati56, But not the definitive answer I was looking for. Although I am not sure the movement differences matter as much as limited amounts of 3186's in the late model GMT's and EXP's that were made. (and maybe you are correct ,This was done during the age of the internet) I still see them selling for a premium as of now. I am sure there will be more posts on this subject in the years to come, Meanwhile HAPPY NEW YEAR to EVERYONE. Great Forum, Great bunch of people, Regards : Casey

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Casey VP-26

Thanks pati56, But not the definitive answer I was looking for. Although I am not sure the movement differences matter as much as limited amounts of 3186's in the late model GMT's and EXP's that were made. (and maybe you are correct ,This was done during the age of the internet) I still see them selling for a premium as of now. I am sure there will be more posts on this subject in the years to come, Meanwhile HAPPY NEW YEAR to EVERYONE. Great Forum, Great bunch of people, Regards : Casey

There was a schematic of the 3185 and 3186 the only difference I could was the main shaft detent gear was slightly longer and had a few more teeth.This made the movement slightly thicker plus it has the in-house hairspring will have a dig around to see if I can find it.But most movements today are based on the cal 3135 so I would doubt if many parts would not interchange between all the mens line up and likewise a very Happy New-Year..

[red.earth]

Yep, the Z818..... Polar EXPII sure did have a 3186 movement in it. I should know! I bought it off of George and a watchmaker friend of mine was keen to take a look so I had a peek too :-)

Unfortunately, I've managed a fairly impressive scratch on one of the links already... ahem!

BTW, George, I gave a glowing recommendation about you to a random enquirer the other day :)

Happy New Year, all...

[sheldonsmith]

The easiest way to discern a 3185 from a 3186 is the method I have posted here (and below):

The Crown Method

Another method for discerning a 3185 with the 3186 movement is through the the Crown Rotation Method. This method is another way to discern the type of movement without having to remove the caseback. Because the calendar and hour-hand setting mechanism was redesigned in the 3186 movement, the number of turns of the crown to turn the 12 hour hand is different on a 3186 than it is on a 3185.



To perform this test, unscrew the crown such that the crown is in the hand setting position. With the crown face-up, count how many hours the hour-hand travels with one full revolution of the winding crown.

• 3185: one complete crown revolution makes the hour hand jumps 6 timezones/hours
• 3186: one complete crown revolution equals 8-9 timezones/hours

This tip was provided to me by Ed who discovered this method on a French watch forum.



I have more information on the 3185 and 3186 posted at http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm

While it is certainly arguable whether there is any functional difference between a 3185 and 3186, what is certainly irrefutable is that Rolex inserted their latest movement (at the time) in a standard case. The only other time that happened was with the change over in the Daytona's when Rolex installed their inhouse chronograph movement. Even then, there were upgrades to the bracelet clasp and changes in the watch face and a different model number. Only the future knows whether a 3186 in a traditional style case/face/hands will increase the value of the watch, but given Rolex's evolution, a 3186 in a traditional case is certainly an anomaly.

-Sheldon

[Kanger]

Originally Posted by George Ab

I had a late Z Exp II that I confirmed used a 3186. The Serial number was Z818XXX. I had it opened by my watchmaker and visually verified. It also had the ROLEXROLEX around the rehaut.

The 3185/3186 issue is much ado about nothing. The most significant improvement of the two is the Parachrom spring which in other models such as 3135 when changed did not warrant a part number change.

For the Explorers it may be about nothing, but the GMTs have been commanding a premium for a while now. You are entitled to your opinion but as long as there are people who want the 3186 in their GMTs, there will be a premium. $190 for a used green LV aluminum bezel, now that's much ado about nothing.

[George Ab]

Originally Posted by George Ab

I had a late Z Exp II that I confirmed used a 3186. The Serial number was Z818XXX. I had it opened by my watchmaker and visually verified. It also had the ROLEXROLEX around the rehaut.

The 3185/3186 issue is much ado about nothing. The most significant improvement of the two is the Parachrom spring which in other models such as 3135 when changed did not warrant a part number change.

Originally Posted by kanger

For the Explorers it may be about nothing, but the GMTs have been commanding a premium for a while now. You are entitled to your opinion but as long as there are people who want the 3186 in their GMTs, there will be a premium. $190 for a used green LV aluminum bezel, now that's much ado about nothing.

Dan,

My comment on much ado about nothing concerns the technical merits of the design change (a gearing change to the GMT hand and the parachrome spring) resulting in a new caliber designation.

I assume your comment “$190 for a used green LV aluminum bezel, now that's much ado about nothing.” is directed towards me as I recently sold an used green LV bezel insert for an asking price of $180 (not $190). I have no idea what that has to do with the thread at hand. So are we now adding comments on how much people are charging for watches/parts to every thread we post to?

[Kanger]

Originally Posted by George Ab

Dan,

My comment on much ado about nothing concerns the technical merits of the design change (a gearing change to the GMT hand and the parachrome spring) resulting in a new caliber designation.

I assume your comment “$190 for a used green LV aluminum bezel, now that's much ado about nothing.” is directed towards me as I recently sold an used green LV bezel insert for an asking price of $180 (not $190). I have no idea what that has to do with the thread at hand. So are we now adding comments on how much people are charging for watches/parts to every thread we post to?

First of all, peace. Your post, among others, clearly stipulated that the whole 3186 in GMT is sham and there is no merit whatsoever for the added premium. I can understand and appreciate that. So while I was appreciating the concepts of shams, I thought, "hmm, we can call up a reputable seller here on TRF for a brand new insert for $100, or we can buy old scratched up inserts for $180..." Anyway, a GMT 3186 is rare and different, period.

[tomchicago]

my M series is 3186. i find the definitive test is number of hours skipped per full rotation of the crown.

[George Ab]

Dan,

As contributing member to TRF we attempt to educate people on watches, for example so they actually know what the difference is between a 3185 and 3186. It adds to the knowledge base and people can make intelligent decisions on the cost difference. We know the modification does not have any effect on time keeping, but adds a few degrees of accuracy to the setting of the GMT hand. I believe it is a solution to a non-existent problem. The parachrome spring is an actual improvement as it provides additional resistance to magnetic fields; however, on all other models when the parachrome spring was introduced Rolex didn’t make a model change. I never said it was a shame. I believe “much ado about nothing” is an accurate description based on the technical merits of the change.

Now the other issue is the one of you bringing up my selling of an LV bezel insert in this thread. I have no understanding why you would bring it up as it is not relevant to the discussion. You seem to have a problem with my price I asked for the insert. So you would not have any problem with after you provide an answer to a post, I bring up a discussion on the price you are asking for watch in the For Sale section. That would be out of line, just like your comment was.

You make the statement that one can purchase a new authentic Rolex LV bezel insert for $100 from trusted sellers here on TRF. I do not believe that to be true statement. Please PM the contact information as I will buy two. If you can come through, I will give one to the guy I sold the used bezel insert to and I actually have use of one right now. So I have a $100 on the line that you will be able to make good on your statement.

[tom_hanx]

I'm thinking there has to be something better in 3186, otherwise Rolex wouldn't really go through the trouble...

Anyhow, I see it that anything past M is cool? Last question would be, does "random serial" mean it is newer than "V" series? I read this is the new, more confusing, system Rolex introduced in 2010... Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks

[sheldonsmith]

The 16710 was not produced past M, so yes, any 16710 that is an M has the 3186 movement. There are no V series 16710s.

Paracrom Blu is pretty significant as the hairspring is made in house, and the hour hand gear train improvement is something that is noticeable.

-Sheldon