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#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Real Name: Nikos
Location: Florida
Watch: Rolex GMT 16750
Posts: 8,417
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PCG 1675 on ebay
Seller describes this as : It hails from 1964 and appears to be in original vintage condition.
The Dial ,hands and bracelet to name a few parts are not ORIGINAL to the watch. The dial and hands are latter replacements, as originals would be gilt and the bracelet is from the late 70's early 80's. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1960...item35b5f4f4e6
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Follow Me On Instagram @nickgogas Original Owner ROLEX 16750 GMT Daily Wearer For Over 13,000 Days And Counting ![]() |
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#2 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,185
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Good catch Greek. Sadly though, this is another GMT from hessfineauctions which have had ebay listings discussed several times here in the Watchout section. They have a propensity, or problem, with incorrect descriptions for GMT's. Makes you wonder what is going on there with the person doing the listing.
The watch is described in the auction as "It hails from 1964 and appears to be in original vintage condition." As you noted, the dial is a replacement dial and the band is not correct for circa 1964. This is not original condition. With that being said, potential buyers should bid accordingly.
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#3 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: ChrisTOPHer
Location: Sydney
Watch: Rolex, Brellum,
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i got one more for you... it is the wrong movement too for a 64 GMT with PCG like this one. should be a 1560/65 not the 1570/5.
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#4 |
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Real Name: STAN
Location: KY-USA
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...mmmmm...
...seller says: "It hails from 1964 and appears to be in original vintage condition."
...and also: "You can count on us to be factual..." ...have to agree with John and Greek about the dial and band. ...however, the 1675 WAS available in BOTH the 1565 and 1575 as shown in 2 different references. ...notwithstanding this, it is common sense that the 1565 was most likely in the earliest models. ...problem is, the references do not differentiate between the serial numbers etc. ...in FAIRNESS to ALL potential buyers, they obviously NEED to revise the listing to be COMPLIANT with their own "You can count on us to be factual...". |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sweden
Watch: 1680
Posts: 188
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The 1575 movement was introduced in 1965, so for a 1964 it should be a 1565 movement.
But am no GMT expert. http://gmtmasterhistory.com/gmt-master_ref_1675.html |
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#7 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: ChrisTOPHer
Location: Sydney
Watch: Rolex, Brellum,
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Quote:
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"Where no counsel is the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Member No.# 11795 |
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#8 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: STAN
Location: KY-USA
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...good info!...
Quote:
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
Posts: 516
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hi all,
As always thanks for the private heads up on this....(please feel free to email Katrina directly at our ebay site or me via PM if you see anything weird on our site. Thanks! Looks like this one was mildy misdiscribed especially the date of the manufacturing (iut was 1963). After all the watch IS genuine of course. Many dials have been replaced over the years on many watches on ebay. But eh dial is genuine and the entire watch is genuine Rolex, wold you all agree? I guess the crux of the issue is the term "all original" and I will suggest to Katrina that the posters quit using that term as who really konws how many Rolexes sold on ebay have never had a new genuine dial or new hands put on them during a factory cleaning and refurb. As all of you know, I do not do descriptions on things for ebay and do not do ebay at all really....(rarely) . This one "may" have had a replacement dial ...we have left a message with the original owner and will post what he says about the watch. Springer is wrong btw...he loves to point out the occasional mistakes that our posters make....and say "there they go again..." "serial poor sellers" etc. he loves this. Go back and look at his posts. in fact, our record is terrific on ebay and we are one of the top 5 dealers and RARELY have a watch that is misdescribed. 99% of our watches never get cited on here. But to listen to Springer we are serial murderers. :) The watch wil be taken down and relisted but not because it is fraudulent or terribly mis described but because the date is incorrect (I just checked) and the GENUINE dial and GENUINE hands and GENUINE dial may have been misdescribd as "original". They ARE ORIGINAL ROLEX of course. (The band is gneuine but appears later) Cheers! J.Hess |
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#10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
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oops! and the calibre is 1560. The poster did not open the watch......she was told by the watchmakers that this watch "should" have a different movement.
definitely described wrong but genuinely a watch that is genuine and ALL ROLEX. Sorry about that. Have fun Springer (whoever you are!) |
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#11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
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Once again, thanks for the private "heads up" on this one.
had a nice "sit-down" with this particular poster... a rel nice girl and one of our smartest.. she has also been using a website called watchgeek.com for her dating and calibre info. ![]() Looks like a pretty good site...not sure what went wrong there. I am not always in my office (and the hess fine art offices are several doors down the street) but I will try to have the posters come down to see me on vintage so Springer does not get his panties in a wad. ![]() Sorry about this. Again, the watch was ALL ROLEX. Katrina has directed all of the posters to show the movement on vintage also. Cheers! Jeff |
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#12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: ChrisTOPHer
Location: Sydney
Watch: Rolex, Brellum,
Posts: 12,601
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Thanks for responding, i appreciate it when sellers respond
it is the statements like 'appears to be in original vintage condition' that is just plain wrong. It looks like a nice all original rolex no doubt at all, but a Matte dial was not available until 67 at the earliest for a start... anyway thats all been covered. And of course wrong movement was declared which i pointed out. It is not the end of the world but you know as well as us that all the Rubbish being sold on ebay is pretty worrying, so its better IMHO to stand out from them and be as accurate as you can be... or else us geeks will get you ![]() ![]()
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"Where no counsel is the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Member No.# 11795 |
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#13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
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Christopher,
She has been told (this afternoon) the subtle difference between "original Rolex" and "original vintage condition". She has relaunched it. Thanks. Jeff |
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#14 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: ChrisTOPHer
Location: Sydney
Watch: Rolex, Brellum,
Posts: 12,601
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Quote:
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"Where no counsel is the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Member No.# 11795 |
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#15 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,185
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Mr. Hess, while taking shots at me doesn't change any of the facts presented here, I know of no other member here on TRF who has had their auctions become a topic of attention in the Watchout Section more than hessfineauctions. That is a fact, just like the discrepancies noted in this auction. The only thing correct on this watch we discussed here was the case, which is as far from original as it can get.
If you need help with future ebay listings, many of us are here to lend a helping hand. I, for one, would be more than happy to provide you with any reviews of your GMT listings or the one noted below. Here is a Submariner listed by hessfineauction with a replacement dial and hands, which are not "genuine early" as noted in the title of the listing. A novice buyer would not know these are replacement parts. Would you correct this listing please. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Earl...item35b62427c4
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#16 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
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Quote:
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#17 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
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Quote:
Well this is my last post on this...but you may be right Mr. Myterious Springer. Perhaps if we knew who you were we would tear yours apart. And yes, my wifes auction are scrutinized on here with you being the the most prolific. Your agenda is clear. percentage wise, Katrinas auctions are the highest rated for accuracy. And on the subject watch, all (even those on this forum) agreed it was mostly the terminology that was the problem. The watch is 100 percent Rolex. All agreed. The posters saying vintage original was the only problem. You are as usual, My Mysterious man Soringer, making a mountain out of a molehill. I know have little else to do, but this my last post on the subject. Cheers! Jeff |
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#18 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
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The GMT discussed here was re-listed on ebay by hessfineauctions. It does not mention the replaced dial, hands or band. Further, it does not state it contains the incorrect movement. http://www.ebay.com/itm/230689473596...84.m1423.l2649
The new listing mentions the caliber and date (what does that mean) and reads as follows: I acknowledge that I made a mistake with the date and caliber on this Rolex when it was listed before. I apologize for any stress this may have caused any previous bidders. On a personal note, I will NEVER purposfully misrepresent a watch, and I always describe them to the best of my ability. The information has been corrected and if you have any questions or comments, please feel free to email me. Now, how about that Submariner Jeff?
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#19 |
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Real Name: George
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#20 |
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Real Name: STAN
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...he should consider listing it for PARTS...
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#21 |
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...ref: the DIAL...
...Jeff, shouldn't your listing DISCLOSE the fact that this is NOT the original dial, but a later one???
...especially, for the uninformed and prospective BUYER of such a normally HIGHLY COLLECTABLE 1675 PCG??? ...in your listings you state: "You can count on us to be factual..." ...you NEED to DISCLOSE the dial issue in your listing for the benefit of your prospective buyers and be in compliance with your own statement. ![]() ...based upon the revised listing and pic of the 1560 bridge, the movement is no longer an issue. |
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#22 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 1,642
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Good call everyone.
This is what it's all about. Any fool can spot a chinese shite hawk but it's ebay auctions like this that are the truly misleading and damn right out of order. Again, well done all. ![]() I luuurve this forum. |
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#23 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
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if your note springers note above he is still harping on the movement is original as the main issue.... the movement is genuine....(also the dial is genuine and the band is genuine). And if you look above , the consensus was that the problem was that we said that the genuine band and dial were "original" to the watch...not that they were not genuine. Which they are. So we took out the offending word "original". TO recap.. the movement, in spit of Springers note, is INDEED original to the case. And the dial and band are genuine Rolex that were probably upgraded by Rolex. We have followed the orders... as this thread has dictated.
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#24 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
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Quote:
As far as the remainder of the listing goes, I concur with Tudorman and the other posts in this thread that the replacement parts should be noted in your auction as they are not original and therefore greatly diminish the value of the watch. While as a seller, it is clear that you want to realize the highest selling price possible, the realized price should clearly be based on what you are selling - not what you perceive you are selling. Selling a watch as original, that contains many replacement parts, is not something anyone likes to see on ebay. We've discussed this many times here with you, and it seems clear that you have a propensity for doing it your way, therefore the posts are made here for those novice collectors that read your listings as gospel. There are also many buyers on ebay that are not privy to the posts here in the watchout section therefore discrepancies in your listings are passed on to the watch experts on ebay. In the end, it is ebay who has the final word on any of their auction listings.
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#25 | |
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Watch: 16610
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Quote:
Just my opinion. With all the missplellings in your posts it is good you are not doing the listings!
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#26 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
Location: florida
Watch: Patek and Ball
Posts: 516
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Mr. Bill,
Forgive the misspellings. I was typing on my Ipad and it was a bit daunting. I beg your forgiveness as well as to your thoughts that I was "Belittling" Mr. Springer. Please correct me if I am wrong, but Mr. Springer seems to be the one that is doing the belittleing if you read the entire thread. And he was wrong as his he has noted. I commend him for his stepping up and being honest as to his mistake. And as noted (again, if you follow the thread) the original complaints on the thread were the word "original" (now relisted to take away the offending word) and the movement not being original (now disproven). I also stepped up and directed my wife Katrina (no easy thing there!) to stop the auction and take our the offending word. Cheers! Jeff Last edited by jeff hess; 27 October 2011 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: spelling |
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#27 |
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Real Name: ChrisTOPHer
Location: Sydney
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Jeff i hate to go on about this as all the points have been made very well by John and Stan.. but i must,
Saying 'the original complaints on the thread were.. the movement not being original (now disproven)'. You have not disproved us at all, you have merely corrected a factual error in your original listing as due dilligence had not been done. ( notice correct use of word original) which was why i questioned it in the first place. ![]()
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#28 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Jeffrey P Hess
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Watch: Patek and Ball
Posts: 516
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Hi Toph,
Ok..Please reread the thread I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I wish you guys the best. The watch is all genuine. The listing does NOT say "original" anymore. End of story. Jeff |
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#29 | |
"TRF" Member
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Quote:
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"Where no counsel is the people fall, but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Member No.# 11795 |
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#30 | |
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