ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
15 December 2011, 06:51 PM | #1 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 431
|
Why no love for Jaeger Le Coultre?
Top companies have paid JLC to make movements for their watches for a long time, from Patek, AP and Vacheron. I know just recently AP stopped using JLC's movement in the ROO. They make some beautiful and classy watches. So I was wondering why they dont get much love from what I have seen? Even some of their higher complications and tourbillons can be had for much less than whats offered from the other top guys. Also why is their resale terrible? They take a huge hit in the aftermarket. Is there just not enough demand?
|
15 December 2011, 07:20 PM | #2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: tom
Location: northern ireland
Watch: my fins
Posts: 10,063
|
shhhhh ,,, dont tell every one , till ive bought a nice reverso , some real second hand bargains to be had ....
|
15 December 2011, 07:25 PM | #3 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cave
Watch: Sundial
Posts: 33,928
|
Best kept secret. They're the watchmakers' brand.
|
15 December 2011, 07:37 PM | #4 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: TSW
Location: Le Brassus
Watch: Rolex & AP's
Posts: 27,449
|
AP did in fact own 40% of JLC til recently.
Myself do like some of the models from JLC but not a big fan of the after- sales handled by Richemont.
__________________
AP Owners Club IG @swiss.watch.connection |
15 December 2011, 08:08 PM | #5 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Europe
Watch: Sub-C 116610LN
Posts: 2,649
|
JLC make high quality watches, and most likely they have and always had the widest range of in-house movements in the whole industry. They prefer to spend $$ on research & development, instead of spending it on marketing and brand ambassadors. The result is such spectacular products as the Master Compressor Extreme LAB, Master Grand Reveil and Duometre. Until recently the one thing they fell short IMHO is that they failed to make products that are "cool". Such products that appeal to the younger generation (under 30). They stepped into the right direction with the diving product line in 2007, and continued on that path with the Navy SEALs products (which raised a lot of controversy too), and the recent introduction of the Tribute to Deep Sea.
The other problem with JLC is the actual fact that their watches cost significantly less than Patek/AP/VC. If you study how much less a JLC complicated watch costs than a Patek, you have to wonder: why is JLC so affordable? Is there anything wrong with JLC watches? Why aren't they priced closer to Patek if the quality matches? People are simply afraid of spending big bucks on a relatively unknown name (JLC) and so they either spend the same money on a Rolex or add some more $$ in the bucket and go for Patek/AP/VC. And since JLC isn't popular on the new market, the same thing plagues the 2nd hand market as well. The end result is quite favorable to us WIS though: on the 2nd hand market it's possible to acquire slightly used JLCs for bargains.
__________________
"In an age of obsolescence and gimmickry, this simple classic virtue of a Rolex is indeed a rarity." (Rolex ad from 1974) |
15 December 2011, 09:24 PM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Eric
Location: Location,Location
Watch: this, bro...
Posts: 15,340
|
i love JLC
|
15 December 2011, 09:31 PM | #7 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Tim
Location: Bangkok
Watch: Lots
Posts: 521
|
I love JLC and hold them in the highest possible regard.
The two I have are by some margin the best constructed production watches I have seen.
__________________
You don't buy a great watch to tell the time, any more than you would buy a fast car because you're in a hurry. |
15 December 2011, 09:38 PM | #8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Watch: SubC
Posts: 1,014
|
One factor is that JLC hasn't been around as long as PP/AP/VC. It was a movement maker until the late 1920s. People pay a premium for the old 3. Furthermore, the Reverso went out of production for a couple of decades (1960s-70s), in which JLC largely faded from public consciousness. Another factor is JLC produces in small quantities, so it simply does not have as many rabid fans as a company like Rolex, which gets its watches on a lot more wrists. JLC also traditionally did not focus on the US market, but it is very popular in France and Switzerland, and at least at one time was very big in the UK, whose military officers inspired the design of the Reverso. Queen Elizabeth wore a JLC at her coronation. Someone already mentioned the lack of marketing. You will not see basketball players and philandering golfers peddling JLC. Finally, to answer Fiery, no -- JLC's quality generally does not match Patek's perfection. The finish may be equal on parts of the watch you and I can see, but my understanding is that JLC will not apply the same degree of finishing on parts of the watch that only the watchmaker will see. That is, PP's doubled price accounts in large part for its perfect finishing of the side of the movement that cannot be seen through a caseback. JLC's finishing of the unseen side is of course very good, and this does not affect functioning at all. Unlike PP, JLC also produces steel dress watches, which while more affordable are not, IMO, designed to compete with Patek's gold watches. Personally, I like it that JLC is not as well known -- the company hits all the right notes for me.
|
15 December 2011, 09:48 PM | #9 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Tony
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Watch: 116680 & 116622
Posts: 3,953
|
Quote:
__________________
"...why oh why, didn't I take the blue pill...?" http://www.helenanddouglas.org.uk/ www.cheetah.org |
|
15 December 2011, 09:51 PM | #10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Tim
Location: Bangkok
Watch: Lots
Posts: 521
|
X2 and also completely accurate assessment of JLC's position IMO
__________________
You don't buy a great watch to tell the time, any more than you would buy a fast car because you're in a hurry. |
15 December 2011, 10:14 PM | #11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Eric
Location: Location,Location
Watch: this, bro...
Posts: 15,340
|
can i ask - why would anyone want to compare JLC to PP? to me, its like compare gold (JLC) to platinum (PP)
against AP and VC i can understand... but why PP? IMO - PP is the top of the top tier watchmakers. (would really love a PP one day, thats for sure) |
15 December 2011, 10:28 PM | #12 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Tim
Location: Bangkok
Watch: Lots
Posts: 521
|
Quote:
Personally I would not buy a PP. But my personal reason for this is that they are mostly slow beat movements and I don't personally like slow beat movements. I am a lover of smooth moving second hands.
__________________
You don't buy a great watch to tell the time, any more than you would buy a fast car because you're in a hurry. |
|
15 December 2011, 10:33 PM | #13 |
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: taipei
Posts: 98
|
JLC and Girard Perregaux suffer similiar fates of always being in the shadow of Patek, Audemars, Vacheron, and now Lange and even Richard Mille.
I love JLC. Bruce Wayne wears a Reverso Grande Taille, the Navy Seals Auto was practically a character in Fast Five, and Tony Stark wears a variety of JLCs. The problem is, no matter what JLC does product wise, it is always eclipsed by some margin by something from the aforementioned brands. 1. If I want a small thin gold dress watch I'll look to a Patek Calatrava before thinking of JLC Master Control or even the BEAUTIFUL JLC ultra thin. 2. If I want a do it all sportswatch I will look at a Royal Oak Offshore before one of the JLC Master Compressors 3. If I want an incredibly artsy museum piece with an enamel painting on the dial, Id look at something like the Vacheron Masque series before I think of the incredible JLC enamel arty pieces with a naked Venus on the dial. 4. If I want a futuristic watch with a movement made from unobtanium mined from Pandora, Id get a Richard Mille RM037 before I think of the JLC Extreme Lab 2 From the above you can see that JLC is amazing because not only do its products compete in virtually every category, the brand wins second place in everything! None of the marquee brands have the breadth of JLC, Patek cant make a sports watch to save its life, and Audemars dress watches are almost an afterthought to its Royal Oak lines and none of the big three make a convincing Mille competitor. Unfortunately, second place is still second place and that is why JLC is not hyped as much as the brands that make first place products even though the manufacturer as a whole is very well respected as a workman-like jack of all trades, master of none |
15 December 2011, 11:13 PM | #14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Real Name: Adrian
Location: Tanzania
Posts: 1,553
|
+1. I never thought there was a lack of love for it, particularly on this forum. This is one of my favorite pieces, and it was a close call between it and a couple of other JLC pieces.
|
15 December 2011, 11:30 PM | #15 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA & France
Posts: 11,078
|
I don't agree they don't get any love - they are world famous and held in a very high regard, but they are placed where they are in the pecking order by their owner the Richemont Group.
The Reverso is a true classic if there ever was one. They are doing a really good job in riding the retro/vintage hype train in re-releasing issues like the Reverso 1931, Tribute to Deep Sea Alarm or Polaris 1967 and 1968. The "problem" with JLC, as I see it, is two-fold: the quality assurance (QA) just isn't there. I've owned 3 JLCs over the year, two of them had to go back right out of the box. The whole 1,000 hrs control is just nonsense. Secondly, they discount heavily, especially in Asia where it is not too hard to get over 30% discount + goodies even at the JLC boutiques. This means that the 2nd hand prices for JLC are horrible compared to brands like Rolex, Panerai, AP etc. I'm quite liking the new Tribute to the Deep Sea Alarm, the European version, but until I can get one at good discount, it is a non starter. |
15 December 2011, 11:41 PM | #16 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Greg
Location: Cincinnati
Watch: I like to...
Posts: 18,567
|
I absolutely love my Alarm... And (not to brag), I have handled some gems. My collection is down to 2 watches, and the JLC is one of them. Unlike some of my fellow TRFers, I have never had any quality issues with any of them... To me, they're the most fairly priced Swiss brand out there, movements are superb, finish is exceptional - and the history is deep. As much as I love PP's, VC's, and AP's, you're paying largely for the name. The assessment that JLC is a watchmaker's watch is absolutely accurate. Also, their range of products is very wide, which I like. If you want a true dressy watch, the Duometre is about as nice as you can get. If it's a sports model you're looking for, the choice is there as well. Plenty of love for JLC here!
__________________
Instagram - @CaliberSwiss “A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson |
15 December 2011, 11:42 PM | #17 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: TSW
Location: Le Brassus
Watch: Rolex & AP's
Posts: 27,449
|
Well said and I agree Patrick,
Although I quite like some of the models.
__________________
AP Owners Club IG @swiss.watch.connection |
15 December 2011, 11:46 PM | #18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Greg
Location: Cincinnati
Watch: I like to...
Posts: 18,567
|
I am not sure how it can get any better than this...
__________________
Instagram - @CaliberSwiss “A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.” - Hunter S. Thompson |
16 December 2011, 12:24 AM | #19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: bp, hu, eu
Watch: dj 16234, 116610ln
Posts: 2,376
|
outside rolex, the polaris is my all time favourite watch.
jlc would be the first brand i'd buy if not rolex.
__________________
16234 jubilee dial, 116610 ln, grand seiko sbgm221g, omega speedmaster mark II, longines legend diver, breguet 3910, nomos club campus 38, swatch sistem51, mares nemo, seiko ripley, g-shock rangeman instagram: modus_horologicus |
16 December 2011, 12:38 AM | #20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Watch: SubC
Posts: 1,014
|
|
16 December 2011, 01:01 AM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 3,177
|
JLC makes some great stuff, and wonderful movements, but to be honest, the fit and finish of them just isn't at the same level as the other top brands. I took a stroll through the boutiques in Beverly Hills a few weeks back and was really excited to see some of the models I'd only seen pics of. I was really disappointed in person and wasn't blown away and didn't have that "wow" feeling, like I got with the IWCs next door and the Breguets around the corner...
__________________
"Oh, you give a f****' aspirin a headache, pal!" |
16 December 2011, 01:05 AM | #22 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Watch: SubC
Posts: 1,014
|
Quote:
|
|
16 December 2011, 02:03 AM | #23 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 3,392
|
Quote:
It was a nightmare dealing with them. The experience was so bad I´ve decided to never purchase a Richemont brand again. |
|
16 December 2011, 02:36 AM | #24 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Bryan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,399
|
Excellent thread!
__________________
Rolex / Panerai / Omega |
16 December 2011, 02:52 AM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Eric
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,595
|
They make some great watches for sure.
|
16 December 2011, 03:07 AM | #26 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Phil
Location: CA
Posts: 5,374
|
Yup...
the marketing is just not there... worldwide the pieces are appreciated by WIS but just not enough of 2ndary market value to further its popularity... wife loves it...
__________________
too much into watches... |
16 December 2011, 03:12 AM | #27 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Phil
Location: CA
Posts: 5,374
|
Quote:
__________________
too much into watches... |
|
16 December 2011, 03:54 AM | #28 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2009
Real Name: steve
Location: dallas area
Watch: 50's TT t-bird
Posts: 3,689
|
Part of the reason that most folks don't own or talk about GP, JLC, VC, etc. is the fact that these are tiny companies that make very few watches compared to the Omega's and Rolex' of the world. To compete, they have to find some kind of niche where they don't make a rolex-like watch at a rolex-like price point. Most of these boutique types end up with dress watches, precious metals, high quality and lots of complications, which resticts their market.
JLC, like many others, has to make a fairly dressy and expensive watch to justify a high price to pay for overhead that can only be spread over a small number of watches. |
16 December 2011, 06:15 AM | #29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Beach in the Med
Watch: Hunting ...
Posts: 1,148
|
To me, JLC has a range almost entirely built around niches.
Less than mainstream partnerships and similarly, less than mainstream appeal. |
16 December 2011, 06:33 AM | #30 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 431
|
I personally love them and believe they make a top watch. I was just curious why it didnt seem others do
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.