GMT 1675 (1.6 m serial)

[southtexas]

Hello gents. I wanted to get your input on a watch I saw recently. As stated, it's a 1.6xx.xxx serial GMT on jubilee.

Notes:

By the looks of the coronet, it seems to be what Springer's "GMT dials" threads calls a W-1, which would be period correct.

All hands and markers have a strong glow.

Date wheel has a closed 6.

Insert is damaged.

Jubilee is stamped Made in USA JB (and the guy said it has a 6 and triangle on it). Endlinks have no numbers.

My thoughts (and please correct me):

Dial has been relumed

Date wheel not correct

Insert is correct (??)

Endlinks should be numbered; therefore not correct.

Case looks in decent shape. (I notice the spring bars almost protruding from one side, but could be wrong spring bars?)

I have no input on bracelet

I look forward to everyone's comments.



















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[Lol-x]

Well with the lume still working...that would connote a re-dial or re-lume. That is not something to be admired.

The thick font bezel insert is nice but the huge ding in it is not good.

The bracelet is wrong as you noted and again that is not good.

The spring bars are sticking out to the edge of the lugs which is also a less than desirable outcome.

I would personally look for something in better/more original condition.

[CrownMe]

I would definitely pass as well. Unless it's a GREAT deal

[Tony G]

I would leave it alone but its your choice what makes u happy.

[springer]

The dial is correct but relumed, referred to as Mark 1 or W-1 from my post on GMT dials.

Date wheel should be white with fat numbers and looks correct.

Insert looks original.

End links on USA bracelets do not have numbers so they are probably correct.

If the price is right, that's your call Robbie. Good luck.

[Paul]

Everyone has a price point I guess and assuming the price acknowledges a few shortcomings, I see a watch I could probably live with.
It has some glaring flaws but it certainly has some redeeming features too.

The pics (and lume glow) scream to me that it's had work done on it .... but the work seems to be fairly well executed.
And for a daily wearer, it's darn handy being able to tell the time in the dark I say.

Yes, it's met up with the polishing wheel once or twice but those pics suggest that the lugs still have a uniform shape to them and I even see a hint of chamfer too.
Better than many I've seen but I'd probably ask for a few more lug pics.

Yes, it has a desirable FF insert - pity about the blemish though - really nice otherwise.

Yes, it's already on a bracelet so there's a few bucks saved there. And a US jubilee is a good match for an early GMT.


Prices have really jumped for the really nice 1675's - this one looks like an honest enough garden variety example.
If the price is ok and you can learn to love its flaws, I say go for it

[CrownMe]

If I had a fat wallet then I wouldn't mind owning a Vintage watch that has been re lumed because it would be nice to see at night. But since I don't I try to buy pieces that are original as possible. That way if I ever have to sell or wanna trade it will make things much easier.

[southtexas]

Thanks for the input everyone.

Follow up question regarding the date wheel. When did open 6's begin and end? When did silver wheels begin and end?


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[springer]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Thanks for the input everyone.

Follow up question regarding the date wheel. When did open 6's begin and end? When did silver wheels begin and end?


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Silver is after the mid-1970s. As far as open or closed sixes, I'm just glad to have a date wheel.

[iclick]

Mine is very similar with a 2.32m serial, only two years younger. The MK-1 (W-1) dial is correct for this period. I believe the "long-E" in "Rolex" is unique to this dial.

All hands and markers have a strong glow.

Mine hasn't been relumed and barely glows at all. I would assume yours has been relumed.

Date wheel has a closed 6.

Mine is also closed and AFAIK the wheel has never been changed. If it has I wasn't told or charged for it.

My thoughts (and please correct me):

Date wheel not correct

Some GMT and subs of this vintage have open and some closed, but I haven't been able to discern which is correct. Again, I have no knowledge of mine being changed during service.

Insert is correct (??)

I think so. Mine is definitely the original.

I don't have much memory of the original band other than it was not a Jubilee. I foolishly tossed it many years ago, replaced by a Jubilee and then an Oyster (93150) with sub clasp (93160).

[Old Expat Beast]

I believe open 6 and 9 datewheels ended about 1989/90.

[Paul]

Getting (almost) too late but as I understand it, a few gilt 1675's were still being seen as late as 1.6m.
Would be an ambitious - and expensive - project but perhaps you have the makings of a gilt 1675 there.


Easier to take a 1675 back to gilt than it would be with a 5513 .... no need to worry about gilt hands unless you were dealing with a very early 1675.
Something magical about gilt 1675's I say, but it's getting prohibitively expensive though to source the gilt dials.
Just thinking out loud really - I could be wrong on the deadline for gilt 1675's.


Must be a few loose gilt dials floating around and strictly speaking you would need a SWISS-T<25 dial I'm thinking.

[iclick]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I believe open 6 and 9 datewheels ended about 1989/90.

If so, mine (2.32m, 1969) must've been changed out at some point in time, but I wasn't told and never paid extra for it during service. The only thing I was ever charged extra for was a crown tube in 1995.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by iclick

So mine (2.32m, 1969) was changed out at some point in time? If so I wasn't told and never paid extra for it during service.

A date wheel is often changed during service at RSC as a normal movement part and there is no additional charge for it. However, I would think that you would have noticed a difference if you in fact had it serviced at RSC

[lhanddds]

Originally Posted by iclick

If so, mine (2.32m, 1969) must've been changed out at some point in time, but I wasn't told and never paid extra for it during service. The only thing I was ever charged extra for was a crown tube in 1995.

If you read John's post (Springer) the silver were placed after the mid 70s, before that I believe they were white, so yours is probably original

[NukeMan]

Originally Posted by iclick

If so, mine (2.32m, 1969) must've been changed out at some point in time, but I wasn't told and never paid extra for it during service. The only thing I was ever charged extra for was a crown tube in 1995.

I have a high 1,6 mill (1967:2), 1675 with a mark I dial, big GMT-hand, looking similar to OP's watch (no re-lume of the dial though). I have consistently round 3's and open 6's. Would my date-wheel be consistent with whats considered original for that serial? I've tried to research but havent been able to find a conclusive answer. I don't believe that the date-wheel has been changed, however believing is one thing and knowing another.

[springer]

Originally Posted by NukeMan

I have a high 1,6 mill (1967:2), 1675 with a mark I dial, big GMT-hand, looking similar to OP's watch (no re-lume of the dial though). I have consistently round 3's and open 6's. Would my date-wheel be consistent with whats considered original for that serial? I've tried to research but havent been able to find a conclusive answer. I don't believe that the date-wheel has been changed, however believing is one thing and knowing another.

Sounds like your date wheel is original, but again, I wouldn't worry too much about it either way. It is a wear item and they are eventually replaced when they do not function properly.

[NukeMan]

John! / Jonas

[iclick]

Originally Posted by Jason71

A date wheel is often changed during service at RSC as a normal movement part and there is no additional charge for it. However, I would think that you would have noticed a difference if you in fact had it serviced at RSC

This watch has never been serviced at RSC. For the first 20 years it was serviced about every 2-3 years at an AD and thereafter at one AD and three indies. Frankly, I doubt if I would've noticed the date font had it been changed, as that kind of thing just wasn't on my radar until the past year or so.

[NukeMan]

Originally Posted by iclick

This watch has never been serviced at RSC. For the first 20 years it was serviced about every 2-3 years at an AD and thereafter at one AD and three indies. Frankly, I doubt if I would've noticed the date font had it been changed, as that kind of thing just wasn't on my radar until the past year or so.

Same here! By some strange reason those kind of details suddenly became apparant (and important) to me when starting on TRF...

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by lhanddds

If you read John's post (Springer) the silver were placed after the mid 70s, before that I believe they were white, so yours is probably original

I posted this question at VRF (I can't get watch off my mind) and they say this vintage of GMT (and some subs) has been known to retain lume to present day. Could've been the dial maker at the time used paint from a certain place that mixed with heavy amounts of tritium...who knows?

[soundserious]

Originally Posted by Paul

Everyone has a price point I guess and assuming the price acknowledges a few shortcomings, I see a watch I could probably live with.
It has some glaring flaws but it certainly has some redeeming features too.

Prices have really jumped for the really nice 1675's - this one looks like an honest enough garden variety example.
If the price is ok and you can learn to love its flaws, I say go for it

Well said. A wonderful example of this watch will probably cost you twice what this one will, and these are simply not rare or unique enough to justify that much of a difference. This is an "adequate" example of the reference.

[MP5]

South Tejas you want a GMT MKI? I want that Red, haha,

[CrownMe]

The dial was definitely re lumed. Even vintage watches that still glow do not glow that bright and only glow for less then a minute.

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by CrownMe

The dial was definitely re lumed. Even vintage watches that still glow do not glow that bright and only glow for less then a minute.

The lume appears to be too strong to be old tritium. If it glows for more than couple of minutes, it's definitely re-lumed. One heck of a re-lume job though.
The lume of my MK 1 is completely DEAD.

[robbret]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I posted this question at VRF (I can't get watch off my mind) and they say this vintage of GMT (and some subs) has been known to retain lume to present day. Could've been the dial maker at the time used paint from a certain place that mixed with heavy amounts of tritium...who knows?

With respect, you're grasping at straws. The dial was most likely relumed.
Tritium dials that old don't glow, halflife of Tritium and all.... Physics.
I'd walk away. Even if it were a deal too good to be true.

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by robbret

With respect, you're grasping at straws. The dial was most likely relumed.
Tritium dials that old don't glow, halflife of Tritium and all.... Physics.
I'd walk away. Even if it were a deal too good to be true.

I brought it up again for further consideration here since most of the guys at the other site who commented said they'd all seen examples from that era with the same glow. The deal is good so I wanted to fully vet it. I'm torn since some of the posters who chimed in there are very well versed in these watches, just like you guys here.

[Shade]

Tbh I havent personally seem a tritium lume this old to have ANY
glow at all.. I have had numerous encounters with 1675 (5 to be exact - 6 if you include a 16750 matte dial) and NONE of them glow at all...

Yes I have heard "rumors" saying that they sometimes glow, but blasting them with 12pm sun for 10 minutes only managed to successfully make me sweat.. The lume still wont glow however..

On the other hand I have personally seen RADIUM lumes glow for a very very short moment, even though its faint, but its visible...

If you think its a good deal, and the seller will accept a buy-back whatever happens, then go for it!

[CrownMe]

Yes some retain there glow. But no where near what the op posted. Looks like luminova. Would definitely buy as a nice daily wear if the price was low enough but as far as collecting goes I'd pass on any watch that has been re lumed.

The bottom left lug has the spring bar sticking out a bit as well.

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by TurboWatch

The lume appears to be too strong to be old tritium. If it glows for more than couple of minutes, it's definitely re-lumed. One heck of a re-lume job though.
The lume of my MK 1 is completely DEAD.

Wow your Gmt is stunning. Great insert. Love unique watches