Disappointing Deal With Tempoking (Anastasios)

[Spartan]

I bought an OysterQuartz 17013 from Anastasios Epitropou (TEMPOKING) in May of 2013 for 2200$ for my dad’s 70th birthday.

Here is the listing: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=296725

Anastasios has nearly 7000 posts here at the ROLEX FORUMS and no one in his right mind would even think for a split second that there would be a problem with one of his Rolex sales!

Unfortunately, that is not the case with the watch that I purchased from him.

In his ad he posted the following:

"personal warranty similar to Rolex new watches for 2 years".

10 months after purchasing the watch the battery stopped so I had it sent to the ROLEX Service Center here in Canada expecting a simple “service” , the usual stuff…. usually runs about $600.

I had no issue with doing that, despite the implied warranty that was provided with the watch when I purchased it. I am not that fussy.

I was shocked, to say the least, when I received the estimate of $1600 from Rolex! Not so much the fact that there were worn out gaskets and that the watch had zero waterproof protection, or that any of the near 30 year old parts that need replacing. No, I was shocked because Rolex refused to repair it unless I would replace the COUNTERFEIT crystal on the watch first.

I have purchased many used Rolex through this forum and others, and I have personally sent more than 10 of them to the Canadian RSC for servicing. Never have I received an estimate stating that "The watch has undergone significant modifications". I was embarrassed!

When I told this to Anastasios, he did make me 2 offers. The first was that he would buy back the watch from me at a lower price. The money loss was not the issue. The issue is that the watch was a gift to my father! My Dad knows nothing of this and is simply waiting to get the watch back from a routine servicing. His second offer was that I send the watch back to him where he would get the service done for U$1200. I would have to send it to him, then he would send it to Europe and then they back to him, and then him back to me.... each leg crossing international borders. And, there would be no official service papers or even a guarantee that the counterfeit parts would be replaced, or that, gulp... new counterfeit parts wouldn't be used in the service.

I will pay the Ca$1600 and my father will get his gift watch back. That is my only viable option.

So, I asked only one thing of Anastasios, and that was that he reimburse me the $200 that I have to pay to replace the crystal before Rolex will touch the watch.

Who would not be mad at buying a watch from a reputable dealer only to find it has counterfeit parts? I don't think I was unfair with my request. In fact, if he had simply said "not interested", I probably would have walked away and taken my lumps. I am not the kind of guy to get into a war of words with anybody. But, Anastasios accused me of trying to "extort" money from him. And, he actually told me that "he wouldn't know a real crystal from a fake".

He will either pay me the $200, or not. It won't change my life much. I just think that not standing behind the integrity of his watches is deplorable, and people should know that. If we can't trust a "trusted seller" in every way, then who can we trust.

Tony.

[mannyv11]

if it had a personal warranty similar to rolex 2 year warranty and it failed within 10 months I don't understand why he would offer you a service at a cost of 1200 dollars?
Shouldn't it technically be covered under his own personal 2 year warranty?

[Passionata]

I think we need to hear the other party as well ,Anastasios has a great reputation here don t think he d ruin that for the price of a burger&coca cola!

[threemonkeys]

His offer of a $1,200 service sounds generous. "Extort" is a harsh word. But we have no idea of knowing how you presented that $200 offer. That is, was it done under the threat of tarnishing his reputation?

[springer]

I have no horse in this race and am not friends or an acquaintance of either party here. I have owned dozens of Rolexes and sold a few myself the past five or six years. I prefer the vintage watches where most of my experience has been since owning various Rolex models.

Regarding your comment on the crystal, I know that there are aftermarket crystals being made with the same magnification as genuine Rolex crystals. For someone not to know a genuine crystal from an aftermarket crystal, which has been installed on a watch, seems very plausible and reasonable to me. I wouldn't have a clue one way or the other if a crystal was genuine Rolex. Many owners and sellers of preowned Rolex would have a very hard time identifying aftermarket crystals.

As far as not being able to identify genuine crystals, let me make an analogy with the aftermarket bezel inserts. The aftermarket bezel insert for GMTs, Subs etc is a very thriving business. Many owners opt for these inserts because they do not want to pay the expense of a new Rolex insert - the only thing they care about is having an insert that looks new. I see these aftermarket inserts installed on Rolex watches all the time, and 99% of the buying public or dealers would not be able to identify an aftermarket insert from genuine even though there are differences in the fonts between the two.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by threemonkeys

His offer of a $1,200 service sounds generous.

Would you still say that if Rolex said the same thing to you within the 2 year warranty period?

[crowncollection]

Why don't you take him up on his offer ? It's under warranty, use it. Crystals are very hard to tell if authentic without removal.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

Why don't you take him up on his offer ? It's under warranty, use it. Crystals are very hard to tell if authentic without removal.

I must have misread it. I thought the OP had to pay $1,200 for the service.

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I must have misread it. I thought the OP had to pay $1,200 for the service.

No my mistake I misread sorry, your are right Mon he would have to pay, not much of a warranty.

[tesmith2112]

Regarding the crystal, I concur with others, you have to remove and thoroughly examine to determine if it's OEM or aftermarket. I'm interested to hear what Anastasios has to say.

I would ask for a full refund personally and move on. I'm surprised that wasn't an option for you.

[mannyv11]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Would you still say that if Rolex said the same thing to you within the 2 year warranty period?

I was thinking the same thing

[Knappo 1307]

I guess my question is what does the personal warranty similar to a new Rolex cover? If it covers everything a new warrantied Rolex covers, then I think the seller is on the hook for the repairs. If it is something else that was discussed between the seller and buyer, then we need to know more. I can say that I believe Anastasios to be a stand up guy, he will do the right thing....

[Foxy1]

Woooow I am very surprised to hear anything bad about him, all I can say is that from countless deals that I have done with him (all I am buying) I have never had an issue and do trust him 100%

From what I know of the man and yes I have met him for lunch he is a perfect gentleman, I feel sure that this will be sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.

I will be watching this thread to see what happens.

[77T]

We are talking about multiple issues at the same time. To be fair, let's break it down.

First, the OP had a dead battery. That would be covered by any warranty I or another member would offer. But OP takes it to Rolex.

So Rolex quotes complete overhaul. That is not a warranty issue. Put in a new battery and it would work for years to come.

The aftermarket crystal needs replacing.

The gaskets need replacing to pass pressure test.

Those items would not cost $1600. Rolex wants to replace much more I'm sure.

Let's see what Tempoking says. I have found an aftermarket crystal on a 30 year old watch but didn't expect a free overhaul. The seller and I settled on splitting cost of new Rolex crystal.

[nickb732]

Originally Posted by 77T

We are talking about multiple issues at the same time. To be fair, let's break it down.

First, the OP had a dead battery. That would be covered by any warranty I or another member would offer. But OP takes it to Rolex.

So Rolex quotes complete overhaul. That is not a warranty issue. Put in a new battery and it would work for years to come.

The aftermarket crystal needs replacing.

The gaskets need replacing to pass pressure test.

Those items would not cost $1600. Rolex wants to replace much more I'm sure.

Let's see what Tempoking says. I have found an aftermarket crystal on a 30 year old watch but didn't expect a free overhaul. The seller and I settled on splitting cost of new Rolex crystal.

It seems like the buyer only wants $200 for a new crystal, no?

[77T]

I think that might be true - would like to hear both sides, though...

[Wesley Crusher]

Have Rolex service the watch and whatever they charge for the replacement crystal, ask that Tempoking pay for it. That is the best and most fair solution. It is his responsibility to replace any counterfeit parts.

[crowncollection]

we need to hear from the op to be fair

[77T]

Originally Posted by crowncollection

we need to hear from the op to be fair

David - I think you mean hear from the seller, Tempoking...the OP started the thread and made the statements about Tempoking, right?

I do agree we need the other side of the story...

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by 77T

David - I think you mean hear from the seller, Tempoking...the OP started the thread and made the statements about Tempoking, right?

I do agree we need the other side of the story...

Yes early morning here still only on my first coffee lol we need to hear from the seller

[TempoKing]

1. He wanted official papers with 2 years warranty from the RSC
so I offered the same RSC service...But from Europe... where I go
at the end of this month for $500 less than he was quoted !!
He turned this offer down !

2. Then I offered to "buy back" the watch ten months later (?)
irrespective of damages or issues for a higher price than
the IWJG used Rolex price guide suggests (I offered $1500)
which is $1,200 to $1,400 with a fair band... rather than mint.
This is a dealer to dealer used watch cash price.
He turned this offer down.

3. The third offer I made him, was that for just $450, which is the cost
of the outside parts he needed replaced ie. Case Back, Tube, Crown, Crystal etc.
(warranty does not cover these ) Plus total overhaul FREE OF CHARGE
by my Rolex trained watchmaker.
He turned this offer down

4. Then, 10 months later he starts complaining about the watch stating that his Rolex
local experts (friends of his) in Montreal (made accusations) that I misrepresented
the watch - sold him a fake with counterfeit parts and that I should pay for the service.
When he realized that I would not do this, he threatens me:
Pay him $195 or receive negative feedback in the forum.
Now it was my turn to turn something down

At TRF forum, I have given my free services, Rolex parts and various accessories
to fellow members for years and have always tried to genuinely help
whenever a member needs it.

I am disappointed with his actions and consider this particular matter closed
I will not trade with him again.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Would you still say that if Rolex said the same thing to you within the 2 year warranty period?

Originally Posted by crowncollection

No my mistake I misread sorry, your are right Mon he would have to pay, not much of a warranty.

The way I read the situation, the cost of the service was not being disputed by the OP. Rolex does not perform free service either just because a watch is under warranty. They only fix a covered problem. Only if they feel they need to service the watch in order to correct the defect, then they will go ahead and do it as part of the warranty work. The only functional "problem" the OP stated was a dead battery, and whether that's covered under warranty or not it's chump change and I can't imagine the RSC performing a free overhaul on a battery replacement.

The OP chose to get the watch serviced, something many do when they first acquire a new watch. He chose to pay a premium for the turnaround time and peace of mind having his home RSC do the work.

It seems the only real issue was the aftermarket crystal. It's just a shame it couldn't have been resolved before getting to this point.

[AbsolutelyROLEX!]

Well, me personally i would have paid him the $195 and be done with it.
There are always 2 sides to every story, in this case both defendants cancel each other out so yes I think this matter should be closed

[nickb732]

I would have paid him the $195 as well. Seeing the many comments about how it is very difficult to tell an original crystal from an aftermarket one, I believe that OP as a customer is obviously in a far worse position than an experienced seller to tell that it is original. The way I see it there are two solutions:

1. Return the watch for the full purchase price. There is a strong implication that all watches for sale on TRF are 100% original. Therefore watch was misrepresented. But since OP clearly does not want this,

2. Reimburse OP the $195. If the seller has breached the contract between them of supplying an original Rolex OQ, what he needs to do is put the purchaser in the position as if the contract had been completed as intended, i.e. with a fully original crystal.

Nothing more, nothing less.

No offence to anyone, just my two cents' worth.

[Foxy1]

Hi

I think that offer No 3 was a great deal in all honesty and correct me if I am wrong but would have been in line with the 2 year warranty that he offered you.

I must admit I am by no means any expert but I think dealer or not it is very hard to tell counterfeit crystal.

[masterserg]

Sounds like no bad faith was involved and ample opportunity for remedy was offered. I also see the buyer's frustration. Shame an agreement could not be reached.

[Old Expat Beast]

It would be interesting and useful to hear the seller's definition of his "personal warranty similar to Rolex new watches for 2 years".

OP, most RSCs will replace dead OQ batteries free of charge, no need for a full service.

[greekbum]

I have done more deals than I can remember with Tempoking and he is one of the best. I know he will go out of his way to find somebody a deal, part or even a service. This is only my opinion here but on the crystal and service estimate this is my 2 cents. I have in the past had watches serviced and had them taken to rolex for a service estimate and they always have recommended a full service even after the watch had just been serviced. The high dollar estimate is normal from them imho. Anybody who just services a watch can take it to them and they will be told by rolex it needs a service has been my experience. Now as far as the crystal goes I cannot and don't know any body who can either tell a real from an aftermarket sapphire crystal pre etched. I have been told that the same people who made them for rolex also sold them through other channels in the 80's and on. How can you tell? You can't. These guys are both Greek so I am sure they will find a remedy

[Greg G]

I would have paid the $200 also. A watch described as a collectible with a 2 year warranty implies a watch that has been thoroughly inspected by a professional, is all original (unless otherwise stated), is water tight, and with a fresh battery.

The offer to buy it back for $700 less than paid is an insult IMHO. A seller trying to make a profit on a warranty?

[nch209]

I think greekbum sums things up better than I can in his below post. I completely agree with his perspective...

Originally Posted by greekbum

I have done more deals than I can remember with Tempoking and he is one of the best. I know he will go out of his way to find somebody a deal, part or even a service. This is only my opinion here but on the crystal and service estimate this is my 2 cents. I have in the past had watches serviced and had them taken to rolex for a service estimate and they always have recommended a full service even after the watch had just been serviced. The high dollar estimate is normal from them imho. Anybody who just services a watch can take it to them and they will be told by rolex it needs a service has been my experience. Now as far as the crystal goes I cannot and don't know any body who can either tell a real from an aftermarket sapphire crystal pre etched. I have been told that the same people who made them for rolex also sold them through other channels in the 80's and on. How can you tell? You can't. These guys are both Greek so I am sure they will find a remedy

Also, I think Anasasios's 3rd option was very suitable...
(3. The third offer I made him, was that for just $450, which is the cost
of the outside parts he needed replaced ie. Case Back, Tube, Crown, Crystal etc.
(warranty does not cover these ) Plus total overhaul FREE OF CHARGE)

...

I have had more dealings with Anastasios that anyone else on the forum. I have bought, sold, traded all kinda of things and each time things worked out top notch! i have even recieved (out of the blue) new Rolex parts, and even cook books for my wifey!

Perhaps the OPs frustrations have been elevated by the expensive quote from RSC- a point Greekbum summed up earlier. I've had a watch serviced locally by a former RSC tech with a Rolex account, and when I needed an insert for it- RSC (Dallas) said it needed a full service! I swear they do this as default...

Again, if I were in this situation I would have opted for option #3. Perhaps there is some worry about all of the traveling the watch would need to do- but I would bet it would be worth it in the end, and have piece of mind and a like new piece.

Wish the best for an amicable solution. Also, to both parties---- has this been discussed only via email or over the phone as well. Sometimes things get lost when reading emails or tones during conversations. Maybe rewind and start over to find a solution? :-)

All the best,
-n8