References required

[Lloyd]

Hi All, Im considering selling my watch to a fellow forum member Finance21,how comes across legit, the sale would entail me sending the watch to the State from South Africa, can any members please supply referrences if you have delt with mike, and give me some wisdom re courrier/customes etc, its a vintage sub 5513 , Many thanks Jonathan.

[no1panerai]

I've never dealt or corresponded with him but I have seen his ID on the good guys list on another forum.

I always use FedEX or UPS to do deals, have not had a problem to or from Canada yet.

You should declare it as something else for your own security, perhaps mark it for repair.

[Wolfgang427]

I would think twice if I were you. All Rolex watches imported to USA are subject to being confiscated by US Customs per Rolex USA orders.

[Andad]

I find it hard to believe that Rolex could get the US Customs to impound a Vintage Rolex.

Can someone confirm this please?

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by directioneng

I find it hard to believe that Rolex could get the US Customs to impound a Vintage Rolex.

Can someone confirm this please?

Confirmed. I'd never buy from out of the country.

[jasonbellevue]

Originally Posted by wolfgang427

I would think twice if I were you. All Rolex watches imported to USA are subject to being confiscated by US Customs per Rolex USA orders.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2.../christmas.xml

"The Rolex trademark recordation with Customs indicates "Import of Goods Bearing Genuine Trademarks or Trade Names Restricted." This means that genuine Rolex products can only be imported with the permission of the trademark owner, Rolex Watch U.S.A. Inc. A private individual can hand carry one Rolex watch from a trip overseas without obtaining permission. Bring in more than one, and they will all be seized as a trademark violation. Purchasing a Rolex from overseas by mail is also a trademark violation."

Title 19 U.S.C. §§ 1526(a) and (b)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Prohibits the importation, with certain exceptions noted in section 133.23(d) of the Customs Regulations, of foreign-made merchandise, if the merchandise, or its packaging or labeling, bears a registered trademark or trade name owned by a U.S. citizen or corporation, which is recorded with U.S. Customs. Any such merchandise imported into the United States in violation of the provisions of this section shall be subject to detention pursuant to 19 CFR § 133.25. Failure to meet conditions set forth in 19 CFR § 133.23(d) shall lead to seizure and forfeiture pursuant to 19 CFR § 133.23(f).

Rolex USA is the owner of the US patents and trade marks thus the ONLY authorized importer of NEW Rolex watches to the US. However they have no legal grounds to prevent the importation of USED Rolex watches which would then be subject to Duty.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Best of luck!

[Hatchet]

Originally Posted by wolfgang427

I would think twice if I were you. All Rolex watches imported to USA are subject to being confiscated by US Customs per Rolex USA orders.

Huh? Since when does Rolex dictate US legal policy?

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by Hatchet

Huh? Since when does Rolex dictate US legal policy?

Rolex S.A. doesn't.

RUSA (Rolex USA) does.

[Andad]

Ok, it would seem that this relates to brand new Rolex and I can understand why Rolex would want to protect local distribution - it does not relate to used Rolex. Is this assumption correct??

[jasonbellevue]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Ok, it would seem that this relates to brand new Rolex and I can understand why Rolex would want to protect local distribution - it does not relate to used Rolex. Is this assumption correct??

You got it. New Rolex imported into the States, RUSA would have a problem with it, but vintage ones, nope, no issues with RUSA.

[mike]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Ok, it would seem that this relates to brand new Rolex and I can understand why Rolex would want to protect local distribution - it does not relate to used Rolex. Is this assumption correct??

I am aware of two collectors that had their watches seized by Customs. One was a 1655, the other a DRSD.

Wolfgang is spot on.

[mike]

I guess I should add I'm aware of several vintage dealers that will not ship to the states because of custom restrictions. Very sad.

[jac67]

Originally Posted by Hatchet

Huh? Since when does Rolex dictate US legal policy?

Hard to believe Rolex is a charitable organisation.

Originally Posted by jasonbellevue

You got it. New Rolex imported into the States, RUSA would have a problem with it, but vintage ones, nope, no issues with RUSA.

Agree with Mike and Wolfgang. I have heard of vintage Rolex seized also, one being a Comex.


John.

[Baptistman]

Originally Posted by jasonbellevue

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2.../christmas.xml

"The Rolex trademark recordation with Customs indicates "Import of Goods Bearing Genuine Trademarks or Trade Names Restricted." This means that genuine Rolex products can only be imported with the permission of the trademark owner, Rolex Watch U.S.A. Inc. A private individual can hand carry one Rolex watch from a trip overseas without obtaining permission. Bring in more than one, and they will all be seized as a trademark violation. Purchasing a Rolex from overseas by mail is also a trademark violation."

Title 19 U.S.C. §§ 1526(a) and (b)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Prohibits the importation, with certain exceptions noted in section 133.23(d) of the Customs Regulations, of foreign-made merchandise, if the merchandise, or its packaging or labeling, bears a registered trademark or trade name owned by a U.S. citizen or corporation, which is recorded with U.S. Customs. Any such merchandise imported into the United States in violation of the provisions of this section shall be subject to detention pursuant to 19 CFR § 133.25. Failure to meet conditions set forth in 19 CFR § 133.23(d) shall lead to seizure and forfeiture pursuant to 19 CFR § 133.23(f).

Rolex USA is the owner of the US patents and trade marks thus the ONLY authorized importer of NEW Rolex watches to the US. However they have no legal grounds to prevent the importation of USED Rolex watches which would then be subject to Duty.

What happened to the Land of the free

[Lloyd]

Thanks to all forum members for the info re customs, don't think I will take the chance of having my watch confiscated.

[Tools]

Actually there's more to it than that..

It becomes an ego trip for the minimum wage, non-educated "agent" and his ability to harrass, and their idea that they are helping with the counterfeit trade.

The law actually states that they can hold, for up to 30 days, a product that is a trademark infringement. However, a genuine Rolex is not a trademark infringement.

When you buy, legally, a properly Rolex SA trademarked product, you are subject to no more than the duty you would from any other product that exceeds the minimum dollar amount.. And if you choose to buy two, or three, it is irrelevant..

Here is the full text..

Title 19: Customs Duties
PART 133—TRADEMARKS, TRADE NAMES, AND COPYRIGHTS
Subpart C—Importations Bearing Registered and/or Recorded Trademarks or Recorded Trade Names


§ 133.23 Restrictions on importation of gray market articles.
(a) Restricted gray market articles defined. “Restricted gray market articles” are foreign-made articles bearing a genuine trademark or trade name identical with or substantially indistinguishable from one owned and recorded by a citizen of the United States or a corporation or association created or organized within the United States and imported without the authorization of the U.S. owner. “Restricted gray market goods” include goods bearing a genuine trademark or trade name which is:

(1) Independent licensee. Applied by a licensee (including a manufacturer) independent of the U.S. owner, or

(2) Foreign owner. Applied under the authority of a foreign trademark or trade name owner other than the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), from whom the U.S. owner acquired the domestic title, or to whom the U.S. owner sold the foreign title(s); or

(3) “ Lever-rule ”. Applied by the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), to goods that the Customs Service has determined to be physically and materially different from the articles authorized by the U.S. trademark owner for importation or sale in the U.S. (as defined in §133.2 of this part).

(b) Labeling of physically and materially different goods. Goods determined by the Customs Service to be physically and materially different under the procedures of this part, bearing a genuine mark applied under the authority of the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), shall not be detained under the provisions of paragraph (c) of this section where the merchandise or its packaging bears a conspicuous and legible label designed to remain on the product until the first point of sale to a retail consumer in the United States stating that: “This product is not a product authorized by the United States trademark owner for importation and is physically and materially different from the authorized product.” The label must be in close proximity to the trademark as it appears in its most prominent location on the article itself or the retail package or container. Other information designed to dispel consumer confusion may also be added.

(c) Denial of entry. All restricted gray market goods imported into the United States shall be denied entry and subject to detention as provided in §133.25, except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section.

(d) Relief from detention of gray market articles. Gray market goods subject to the restrictions of this section shall be detained for 30 days from the date on which the goods are presented for Customs examination, to permit the importer to establish that any of the following exceptions, as well as the circumstances described above in §133.22(c), are applicable:

(1) The trademark or trade name was applied under the authority of a foreign trademark or trade name owner who is the same as the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (in an instance covered by §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part); and/or

(2) For goods bearing a genuine mark applied under the authority of the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner, that the merchandise as imported is not physically and materially different, as described in §133.2(e), from articles authorized by the U.S. owner for importation or sale in the United States; or

(3) Where goods are detained for violation of §133.23(a)(3), as physically and materially different from the articles authorized by the U.S. trademark owner for importation or sale in the U.S., a label in compliance with §133.23(b) is applied to the goods.

(e) Release of detained articles. Articles detained in accordance with §133.25 may be released to the importer during the 30-day period of detention if any of the circumstances allowing exemption from trademark restriction set forth in §133.22(c) of this subpart or in paragraph (d) of this section are established.

(f) Seizure. If the importer has not obtained release of detained articles within the 30-day period of detention, the merchandise shall be seized and forfeiture proceedings instituted. The importer shall be notified of the seizure and liability of forfeiture and his right to petition for relief in accordance with the provisions of part 171 of this chapter.

[DSJ]

Originally Posted by Tools

Actually there's more to it than that..

It becomes an ego trip for the minimum wage, non-educated "agent" and his ability to harrass, and their idea that they are helping with the counterfeit trade.

The law actually states that they can hold, for up to 30 days, a product that is a trademark infringement. However, a genuine Rolex is not a trademark infringement.

When you buy, legally, a properly Rolex SA trademarked product, you are subject to no more than the duty you would from any other product that exceeds the minimum dollar amount.. And if you choose to buy two, or three, it is irrelevant..

Here is the full text..

Title 19: Customs Duties
PART 133—TRADEMARKS, TRADE NAMES, AND COPYRIGHTS
Subpart C—Importations Bearing Registered and/or Recorded Trademarks or Recorded Trade Names


§ 133.23 Restrictions on importation of gray market articles.
(a) Restricted gray market articles defined. “Restricted gray market articles” are foreign-made articles bearing a genuine trademark or trade name identical with or substantially indistinguishable from one owned and recorded by a citizen of the United States or a corporation or association created or organized within the United States and imported without the authorization of the U.S. owner. “Restricted gray market goods” include goods bearing a genuine trademark or trade name which is:

(1) Independent licensee. Applied by a licensee (including a manufacturer) independent of the U.S. owner, or

(2) Foreign owner. Applied under the authority of a foreign trademark or trade name owner other than the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), from whom the U.S. owner acquired the domestic title, or to whom the U.S. owner sold the foreign title(s); or

(3) “ Lever-rule ”. Applied by the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), to goods that the Customs Service has determined to be physically and materially different from the articles authorized by the U.S. trademark owner for importation or sale in the U.S. (as defined in §133.2 of this part).

(b) Labeling of physically and materially different goods. Goods determined by the Customs Service to be physically and materially different under the procedures of this part, bearing a genuine mark applied under the authority of the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (see §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part), shall not be detained under the provisions of paragraph (c) of this section where the merchandise or its packaging bears a conspicuous and legible label designed to remain on the product until the first point of sale to a retail consumer in the United States stating that: “This product is not a product authorized by the United States trademark owner for importation and is physically and materially different from the authorized product.” The label must be in close proximity to the trademark as it appears in its most prominent location on the article itself or the retail package or container. Other information designed to dispel consumer confusion may also be added.

(c) Denial of entry. All restricted gray market goods imported into the United States shall be denied entry and subject to detention as provided in §133.25, except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section.

(d) Relief from detention of gray market articles. Gray market goods subject to the restrictions of this section shall be detained for 30 days from the date on which the goods are presented for Customs examination, to permit the importer to establish that any of the following exceptions, as well as the circumstances described above in §133.22(c), are applicable:

(1) The trademark or trade name was applied under the authority of a foreign trademark or trade name owner who is the same as the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner (in an instance covered by §§133.2(d) and 133.12(d) of this part); and/or

(2) For goods bearing a genuine mark applied under the authority of the U.S. owner, a parent or subsidiary of the U.S. owner, or a party otherwise subject to common ownership or control with the U.S. owner, that the merchandise as imported is not physically and materially different, as described in §133.2(e), from articles authorized by the U.S. owner for importation or sale in the United States; or

(3) Where goods are detained for violation of §133.23(a)(3), as physically and materially different from the articles authorized by the U.S. trademark owner for importation or sale in the U.S., a label in compliance with §133.23(b) is applied to the goods.

(e) Release of detained articles. Articles detained in accordance with §133.25 may be released to the importer during the 30-day period of detention if any of the circumstances allowing exemption from trademark restriction set forth in §133.22(c) of this subpart or in paragraph (d) of this section are established.

(f) Seizure. If the importer has not obtained release of detained articles within the 30-day period of detention, the merchandise shall be seized and forfeiture proceedings instituted. The importer shall be notified of the seizure and liability of forfeiture and his right to petition for relief in accordance with the provisions of part 171 of this chapter.

Paging Rockrolex, off-the-record opinion needed here!

[MAC4130]

No Import of Rolex to the US!

[nhdblfan]

Makes you wonder how all those big time grey dealers like swissluxury get those NIB's with overseas warranties large numbers in the country.

[watchnut]

Originally Posted by mike

I am aware of two collectors that had their watches seized by Customs. One was a 1655, the other a DRSD.

Wolfgang is spot on.

Must be why you see so many customs agents wearing Rollies!

[finance21]

Guess I'll have to buy my watch from someone else :)