Buying my first vintage Rolex. Couple questions

[Ray Sub]

I currently own and daily wear a 2008 no date sub. Ive been keeping my eyes out for a mint 1985 (my birth year) submariner and stumbled across one.

My questions:

Store is asking 5,295 for it. I think it's somewhat a fair price but wanted more professional opinions.

More importantly.. Will i be able to also daily wear it and take it through its paces like my 2008. Working out at the gym, hot tub, steam room etc. Those are my concerns.

Thanks so much

[Old Expat Beast]

Pics please. 5513? I would avoid saunas and steam rooms with an acrylic dome sub, but at least get it pressure tested/serviced.

[Ray Sub]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Pics please. 5513? I would avoid saunas and steam rooms with an acrylic dome sub, but at least get it pressure tested/serviced.

http://www.bobswatches.com/vintage-r...lack-5513.html

Here is the link. I also bought my 2008 used from here so it just seemed more convenient since I am new to the forum

[R.W.T.]

Why do you think that a 1985 acrylic sub (provided that is indeed what he is talking about...he may not mean another non date at all..he may be thinking 16800) is more prone to moisture intrusion in a sauna than a sapphire?

Same gasket under the crystal retainer, same crown and tube gaskets, same back gaskets.

With a standard service and a water test I can see no reason that would be any more susceptible to moisture intrusion in a sauna or hot tub than a 14060m.

[Ray Sub]

http://www.bobswatches.com/vintage-r...lack-5513.html

Here is the link to the exact watch. Ive bought from them before, slightly over priced but they have the watch I want.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Ray Sub

http://www.bobswatches.com/vintage-r...lack-5513.html

Here is the link to the exact watch. Ive bought from them before, slightly over priced but they have the watch I want.

Can't see it too well on my ipad but it has a service dial, probably service hands too. That's no bad thing if you want it for daily wear.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Why do you think that a 1985 acrylic sub (provided that is indeed what he is talking about...he may not mean another non date at all..he may be thinking 16800) is more prone to moisture intrusion in a sauna than a sapphire?

Same gasket under the crystal retainer, same crown and tube gaskets, same back gaskets.

With a standard service and a water test I can see no reason that would be any more susceptible to moisture intrusion in a sauna or hot tub than a 14060m.

I asked him if it was 5513. And even RSC will not guarantee waterproofness on a newly serviced sub that has an original acrylic crystal.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I asked him if it was 5513. And even RSC will not guarantee waterproofness on a newly serviced sub that has an original acrylic crystal.

Actually the RSC does guarantee waterproofness on a service, atleast I believe they did on my red sub as part of my 2 year warranty since they didn't state otherwise. However I do agree that using a vintage sub in water regularly like a modern might not be the best idea. If waterproofing is somehow compromised, finding a replacement dial will be costly and a nightmare, better safe than sorry when handling vintages.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by cruvon

Actually the RSC does guarantee waterproofness on a service, atleast I believe they did on my red sub as part of my 2 year warranty since they didn't state otherwise. However I do agree that using a vintage sub in water regularly like a modern might not be the best idea. If waterproofing is somehow compromised, finding a replacement dial will be costly and a nightmare, better safe than sorry when handling vintages.

No service crystal, no guarantee, they told me last year.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

No service crystal, no guarantee, they told me last year.

Oky, I remember they had put a service plastic crystal on mine I think after they found the old plastic one had been compromised by a non visible fracture. Water and moisture can be the number one causes of dial degradation so better to replace the crystal with one that holds on better I guess.

[Old Expat Beast]

I agree, but they wanted to replace it with a sapphire. I know this sounds mad, and many questioned this when I mentioned it last October, but since then one or two others have also reported RSC saying the same thing. How they fit a sapphire to a 5513 I have no idea, but this seems to be the new thing, maybe as acrylic stocks run out. This is why I stuck with the original. I have a 14060m anyway, so no worries.

Edit: see post #7 here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=344313

[R.W.T.]

I've never heard of anything like an RSC replacing an acrylic with a sapphire.

This is something totally new. As far as not warrantying the water resistance that may have NOTHING to do with the fact that it uses an acrylic rather than sapphire but rather something is not okay with the watch. Unless they told you that it was specifically because you would not allow THEM to replace it with a sapphire crystal....you can't necessarily draw that conclusion.

They built their entire reputation on watches with acrylic crystals being water resistant...

If it were water resistant when it was made. It's still water resistant to the same specifications that it was when it was made, unless there is something compromised with the watch....it's not the system or design.

The system of seating the sapphire...that nylon gasket can easily become as brittle as any acrylic crystal. I've serviced a sapphire datejust that was knocked on a rock while the guy was white water rafting and the gasket had hairline fractures all around it and it leaked like a sieve.

Aftermarket conversions have been around for decades...50 50 they leak.

There are different parameters at RSC's all over the world. I've NEVER heard of Rolex not warrantying a watch's water resistance solely on the fact that it uses an acrylic crystal. WHY would they continue to manufacture the acrylic crystals? They would simply drop them all together. They are much more into function.

In FACT RSC is probably one of the ONLY, if not THE only watch repair facility that will warrant water resistance on a Rolex. They're the only people with enough capital to take on that kind of liability.

[R.W.T.]

After reading the post you posted...Flat crystal and Sapphire are not necessarily the same thing.

The new service acrylic is flat or flatter. It's not domed rounded, but it is NOT sapphire.

The reason they would not warranty your water resistance is because you insisted on keeping the old crystal.

Even an NOS one of these is old and prone to failure. That is the reason.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

After reading the post you posted...Flat crystal and Sapphire are not necessarily the same thing.

The new service acrylic is flat or flatter. It's not domed rounded, but it is NOT sapphire.

The reason they would not warranty your water resistance is because you insisted on keeping the old crystal.

Even an NOS one of these is old and prone to failure. That is the reason.

+1, that's correct, they replace with a service acrylic, not sapphire! Off course they also replace the gaskets etc. with proper ones to attain their waterproofing standards and hence their warranty. The only thing I know about the difference between the original acrylic and service acrylic is that the service one also has bevelled edges but I haven't done must research into their designs.

[cruvon]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I agree, but they wanted to replace it with a sapphire. I know this sounds mad, and many questioned this when I mentioned it last October, but since then one or two others have also reported RSC saying the same thing. How they fit a sapphire to a 5513 I have no idea, but this seems to be the new thing, maybe as acrylic stocks run out. This is why I stuck with the original. I have a 14060m anyway, so no worries.

Edit: see post #7 here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=344313

That's quite surprising they wanted to replace with a Sapphire one but even if they did, I would have taken that option provided the replacement had a vintage high hat design, I wouldn't compromise on the waterproofing. You could always buy an original acrylic crystal for collection purposes.

Here's some pics of when I got mine back from the RSC, couldn't be happier!

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

After reading the post you posted...Flat crystal and Sapphire are not necessarily the same thing.

The new service acrylic is flat or flatter. It's not domed rounded, but it is NOT sapphire.

The reason they would not warranty your water resistance is because you insisted on keeping the old crystal.

Even an NOS one of these is old and prone to failure. That is the reason.

Yes, this is what I said already. I was face to face in the RSC with the woman dealing with me, and she repeated when I asked her, that they would use a sapphire for replacement, even when I pointed to my Milgauss and said "you mean sapphire crystal like this?". Perhaps, as the 5513 has been OOP for about 25 years, they no longer make (or stock) the replacement acrylics for that reference.

Ray Sub, sorry your thread has been hijacked somewhat. Perhaps someone else can comment on the watch you are interested in.

[Ray Sub]

No worries about hijacking the thread. This is all very useful and interesting information and conversation.

I guess I wouldn't wear the sub as a daily wear like my 2008 but my next question is it it worth it for 5295? Did you check the bobs watches link?

[lhanddds]

Why not get a GMT from your birth year. It would be a different look and I think you would enjoy having something a little different.

[Ray Sub]

I love the Sub. I had a daytona for a short time and honestly Im stuck on the no date sub. My favorite watch.

I called bobs watches they said the sub has an updated new crystal btw.