Seeking sage advice on a vintage 16750?

[tom33455]

Greetings to all. I am new to this wonderful site and now find I am spending entirely too much time reading, browsing and researching. I've been a long time Rolex owner (Bought my first one - a 1680 (vintage 1967) after seeing James Bond and his "cool watch" in a movie.

Anyway, my dilemma. I have a 1980 GMT Master 16750 that I've also owned since new and recently sent it to RSC for a service estimate. They've recommended replacing the dial and hour and second hands because the "luminesence" shows some "cracking". The Pepsi bezel is also faded and they recommend replacement.

Any opinions on the impact to the value if I replace these components as recommended? Thanks very much!

[redshirt1957]

QUOTE=tom33455;644384]Greetings to all. I am new to this wonderful site and now find I am spending entirely too much time reading, browsing and researching. I've been a long time Rolex owner (Bought my first one - a 1680 (vintage 1967) after seeing James Bond and his "cool watch" in a movie.

Anyway, my dilemma. I have a 1980 GMT Master 16750 that I've also owned since new and recently sent it to RSC for a service estimate. They've recommended replacing the dial and hour and second hands because the "luminesence" shows some "cracking". The Pepsi bezel is also faded and they recommend replacement.

Any opinions on the impact to the value if I replace these components as recommended? Thanks very much![/QUOTE]


The 1980 is a different 16750 as it does not have gold surrounds and has the elongated crown. I would not let them touch the dial. If you wanted the dial replaced to acquire better lum, I would contact Capetown and have them replace the dial and that way you could keep the old dial. Rolex will only swap out dials. Hands are not as important as the dial. Has any of the lum fallen off? When was the last service? Can you take a picture? I had a 1980 16750 in for service and got the same response. I told RSC to send back and I am having a local watchmaker service the movement, but not to touch the dial, hands, and bezel. Good luck. I am a rookie so better advice from the pros will be forthcoming I am sure.

[tom33455]

Thanks Red, I'm thinking it might be wise to keep the face and hands and just replace the bezel insert.

[bwalkerVintage]

I wouldn't let them touch anything if you are worried about value (meaning that you would consider selling it I suppose).

Furthermore, IMO having white new hands and a nice patina on the dial lume is not aesthetically pleasing. That being said, they may not service it if you deny the hands change if there is too much cracking.

Regarding the insert, I would keep that as well - goes with the aged look of the watch. You can always get a brand new bezel insert on ebay or something, but the US RSCs will keep your old insert and it will be gone forever.

[Tools]

Tom,

They alwalys say that the value of any old watch is in the dial and hands. Using that as a basis then I would always say that if you are concerned with the collector value of your piece down the road, leave them alone.

If you are concerned with a modern, functional timepiece that will last another 25 years wothout worry, then have them changed.

From your statement then, Rolex has only "recommended" replacing them, and in that case I would opt for a no vote. At some point Rolex will no longer recommend replacements but require them due to their deterioration. At that point the decision becomes more difficult..

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Welcome to TRF!

I would have the dial and hands exchanged since you would not want the Tritium to flake off, entering the movement via the date aparture. But I would make sure to keep the old dial and hands, even if you have to pay for keeping them. If you want to re-sell the GMT later on, having the old dial and hands (even in bad state) is a big plus.

[bwalkerVintage]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Welcome to TRF!

I would have the dial and hands exchanged since you would not want the Tritium to flake off, entering the movement via the date aparture. But I would make sure to keep the old dial and hands, even if you have to pay for keeping them. If you want to re-sell the GMT later on, having the old dial and hands (even in bad state) is a big plus.

Bo,

USA RSC will not return old parts.

[redshirt1957]

Originally Posted by bwalkerVintage

Bo,

USA RSC will not return old parts.

Yep!

[mike]

Tom, the value will be impacted a lot. You state you've owned the watch since new. Do you still have the Box and papers? If so a complete set on a 16750 is a desirable commodity.

Rolex just about always recommends replacing the dial and hands now. Their idea of cracking doesn't mean the dial is falling apart. Keep it the way it is!

I would recommend against replacing the hands as well. While for what ever reason hands on the 16750 lent themselves to pitting, finding a set of hands for a matt 16750 is a task, and one that has caused some collectors to sell an otherwise wonderfully dialed watch that had replacement hands on it.

Your's is a nice collectors piece right now..leave it as is. If Rolex won't service without the swap send here,

http://www.watchmakers.com/index.html

Bob carries a lot of weight in the vintage community and his service will in no way impact it's value.

He's done some amazing things on very rare and expensive watches.

They don't make these anymore,

[jasper]

For reasons I understand but do not necessarily agree with, faded bezel inserts and dials with heavy patina have a high value in the various rolex and vintage watch classifieds you find here on the interweb.

For every guy who wants a nice brand new shiny Rolex, it seems there is another who wants a vintage Rolex that's well worn and showing the signs of an adventure filled life.

Like I say - I understand it, and I prefer a vintage plexiglass Rolex to the modern sapphire ones myself, but I don't agree since I want my vintage Rolex looking "as new".

The dial and hands on my watch look like new, and that's how I received it. I don't know if the watch has had work done, the dial is the WG surround variety, but at any rate I'm glad I am not in your position.

So - I don't know how emotionally attached you are to your 16750 (I will never sell mine - best GMT model ever) but you could consider selling the watch as it sits today and then replacing it with something that's already been freshened up.

Tough choice.

You do have another, albeit more complicated choice though if you want your personal watch to look fresh..... over on the vintage Rolex forum you may be able to find a dial and hands just like yours but in better condition. Buy those, have a good independent install them, and then sell your old dial and hands on the same forum. You might even turn a profit if the patina on your gear is particularly desirable.

That's advanced watch hobbying though...no doubt about it.

Good luck - and post some pics already. Can't believe no one has asked already.

[tom33455]

I'll post pix of both the red 1680 and the GMT once I get them back from Rolex SC. Thanks everyone

[mike]

Jasper, you bring up some excellent points that merit discussion.

Some collectors value originality above all else while some are comfortable with replacement parts that really do not have a great impact on the value of the piece. I don't know that one is "more right" than the other, but simply different takes by different people.

Likewise patina is all over the place. Some prefer snow white dials and hands (that would be my preference given a choice) while others enjoy an "ivory" color to a "coffee" color. Again I think it's personal preference. What I think does have an impact is the evenness of the patina between the hands and dial. I've passed on pieces with very nice dials but had mismatching hands. (I know one can try to source parts, but they're getting hard to find..and the price!)

In the end it all comes to what a given collector is comfortable with, but as I've always been told--They're only original once. That said, I agree a piece with an original dial/hand set that has been abused (usually through lack of maintenance) with water damage and black flaking indices is not one I'm apt to go after.

And you are so right...why didn't we ask for pics. LOL!

[dsimon9]

I also sent my 16750 (black bezel) out for servicing. Like you, they wanted to replace the bezel, hands and dial. I asked them to replace the bezel but not the dial or hands. They agreed, or so it seems.

Still waiting for the job to be done.

Dex

[Andad]

All great advice. The truth is probably in the middle as every Rolex owner wants their Rolex to age "perfectly" but as we know life is not like that and instead of a nicely aged hand we have bits falling off.

I am sure that with the advice given you will end up with exactly the Rolex that you want, take plenty of time with your decision as your 1980 GMT deserves it.

[bwalkerVintage]

Originally Posted by jasper

For reasons I understand but do not necessarily agree with, faded bezel inserts and dials with heavy patina have a high value in the various rolex and vintage watch classifieds you find here on the interweb.

For every guy who wants a nice brand new shiny Rolex, it seems there is another who wants a vintage Rolex that's well worn and showing the signs of an adventure filled life.

Like I say - I understand it, and I prefer a vintage plexiglass Rolex to the modern sapphire ones myself, but I don't agree since I want my vintage Rolex looking "as new".

The dial and hands on my watch look like new, and that's how I received it. I don't know if the watch has had work done, the dial is the WG surround variety, but at any rate I'm glad I am not in your position.

Originally Posted by mike

Jasper, you bring up some excellent points that merit discussion.

Some collectors value originality above all else while some are comfortable with replacement parts that really do not have a great impact on the value of the piece. I don't know that one is "more right" than the other, but simply different takes by different people.

And you are so right...why didn't we ask for pics. LOL!

I agree that this issue comes up often. In some cases, I think it comes down to whether or not someone will ever consider selling their watch.

In my case, I received my early 1970's 1675 GMT with the original dial, hands and bezel insert (from my grandmother when my grandfather passed away). Of course the lume was no longer functional. For me, I will never sell this watch, but can also remember how fond my grandfather was of it. In order for me to really appreciate it and get maximal use out of it, I felt as though I wanted to have it completely overhauled so that it would be as brand new looking for me as it was for him when he bought it.

I had my dial and hands and bezel insert replaced with service replacements from the BH RSC. I am so happy I did - I have a vntage watch that is a family heirloom, but it looks as though it just came from the factory (and has functional lume when the lights go off).

And a pic:



pretty sweet for a Rolex that is old as I am.

[tom33455]

Brendan, I can relate to your feelings.................This really is an amazing community that shares a passion for this outstanding brand and shares that passion freely, happily and personally. Thank you............

[bwalkerVintage]

Originally Posted by tom33455

Brendan, I can relate to your feelings.................This really is an amazing community that shares a passion for this outstanding brand and shares that passion freely, happily and personally. Thank you............

Welcome to the community I too have felt that there are an amazing group of people here. In fact, in the past, I have gotten a little excited () when I felt someone was not respecting the vibe here the way I do. Hope you keep coming around.