How do you tell the difference between vintage Submariners?

[Time Traveller]

I am not buying a vintage Submariner but I would like to expand my knowledge in this area and need the knowledge of owners and anyone that has something to offer please.

How do know tell the difference between a 1680 and a 5512 or 5513, etc. for example?

Is there something I should look for on the exterior of the watch that gives away this information? i.e. crown size or guards, crystal, dial, etc.

Thanks!

[MrRetep]

Good question! Looking forward to the answers as I'd like to educate myself as well.

[stevemulholland3]

boy you dont want to learn much do you..
here follow this link and read all you would like to learn.
http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/

[Time Traveller]

Originally Posted by stevemulholland3

boy you dont want to learn much do you..
here follow this link and read all you would like to learn.
http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/

Thanks!

[rocco1109]

1680 - the first Submariner with a date function. Matte dial. Plastic "top hat" crystal


5513 - no date, no COSC certification, plastic domed crystal


5512 - no date, COSC certified, plastic domed crystal
Sorry. Don't have a pic of a 5512 because I don't own one. But the dial looks the same as the 5513 except it has the "Superlative Chronometer Officially Certified" on the dial

For each of these models, there are multiple dial variations. For example there is "meters first" (meaning that the depth rating reads 200m = 660 ft) and "feet first" (obvious). The "meters first" dials are older.

On a 5513 for example you'll see these configurations on the dial:

200m = 660ft
SUBMARINER

660ft = 200m
SUBMARINER

SUBMARINER
660ft = 200m

Then there are the "maxi dials" which get quite complex.

Go to www.doubleredseadweller.com for more info on the maxi dials as well as the Red Submariners

[Latrodectus]

Steven,
thanks for this great link. Very interesting and full of new information to me!!!

[rocco1109]

After the 1680, Rolex introduced the 16800. It had an upgraded movement and was the first Sub with a sapphire crystal. The earliest 16800s had a matte dial.

Because of the old school matte dial coupled with the new sapphire crystal, the 16800 is called the "Transitional" model (i.e., transitioning between old and new).

With the sapphire crystal, Rolex was able to upgrade the depth rating to 1,000 feet.



Later versions of the 16800 had glossy dials with white gold surrounding the hour markers. They are indistinguishable from the first 16610 sub-dates produced in the late 1980s.

Just prior to releasing the 16610 (which is the model of the current sub-date) Rolex released the 168000 which was discussed at length recently in a thread here (use the search function).

Here's a pic of my 168000. Again this watch looks exactly like the early 16610s (on the outside)


Here are the 168000 and the 16800 (matte) together. Note the differences in the Rolex coronet on the dials. The 16800 has a tall, skinny coronet while the 168000's coronet seems to be more squatty.

[stevemulholland3]

make sure you guys e-mail me if your thinking of buying any vintage pieces ,not only might I have what your looking for but I might be able to help you not get taken by the unscrupulous out there,even if you dont buy from me!!

[MrRetep]

Thanks for all the great info guys! Steven will keep you in mind for future purchases, Thanks

[SLS]

Here is some more watch porn... I defer to what Rocco said!

Meters First 5513




White 1680




16800




Scott

[C. Davidson]

Scroll down in the following thread to see a picture of the 5512. Great information and prices provided by Spark/Mark.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=53581

[mike]

A bit more info,

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=30759

[hsung]

So ... is a Sub considered Vintage when it has a matt dial and/or there are no metal enclosing the lume markers ... which no longer lumes?

[Nigel Tufnel]

great posts, Rocco, thanks

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by Time Traveller

I am not buying a vintage Submariner but I would like to expand my knowledge in this area and need the knowledge of owners and anyone that has something to offer please.

How do know tell the difference between a 1680 and a 5512 or 5513, etc. for example?

Is there something I should look for on the exterior of the watch that gives away this information? i.e. crown size or guards, crystal, dial, etc.

Thanks!

You really need to read the Submariner "Bible

Written in Italian but the numbers are the same as in English ...
When you thought that Italians are only good for making pasta, amore, gellato, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Buggati & alta moda Italiana....here comes the holy duo, Guido Mondani & Lele Ravagnani (I know this one personally-great guy) with the new massive size.. "Submariner Bible" measuring 31.5cm x 25.5cm x 4.5cm, weight approximately 3kilos...wow

Best reference Book for all Subs ever made !!

6204, 6205, 6200, 6538, 6538A, 6536/1,
5508, 5510, 5512, 5513, 5514, 5517,
14060, 14060M, 1680/8, 16800, 16803,
16610, 16613, 16618, 1665, 1660, 16600.... and much much more

Really ALL the information you got to know about Subs..all in here !!

This is the "mother of all Submariner references".
Yes maybe a problem because it is Written in Italian...but it is easy to understand.
To give you an example when describing ref: 5508

Referenza 5508
Periodo presunto di produzione dal 1957 al 1961, Calibro 1530, (anno di creazione del calibro 1957
Questo calibro, creato dalla Rolex nel 1957, mantiene lo stesso diametro 28.50mm e numero di alternanze 18000 del calibro 1030, varia invese l'altezza che e diventata di 5.75mm . E'un calibro di base, automatico, secondi al centro, dispositivo antiurto, con inciso sul ponte del meccanismo automatico 1530

...And you thought you could not speak Italian..?

[Time Traveller]

Thank you everyone for your contribution! Especially thanks to Rocco. Those pics with explanation were just what I was looking for.

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by Time Traveller

Thank you everyone for your contribution! Especially thanks to Rocco. Those pics with explanation were just what I was looking for.

Wow...you are easy to please....

[Time Traveller]

Originally Posted by TempoKing

Wow...you are easy to please....

Well I would not be opposed to accepting more information. ;-)

[sea-dweller]

Great post and information ! Very informative ! Thanks !

[TempoKing]

All the best..