Rare & collectible ro.lex pre explorer vintage watch!!!

[idk01]

Hi Guys,

Decided to start doing searches on eBay using only a combination of ro lex, lex olex and have found a few from the same seller, here is an example:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....m=160312922486

Images protected so I cant add one on here :-(

"You are looking on a very rare, vintage and collectible, especially for its age and condition, ROLEX pre EXPLORER watch. It was in a safe-box for more than 40 years!"

the model number seems to be '6486' which I cant find anywhere in my lists here or on the web, maybe I'm loosing my touch with Google :-) , on the dial is (in order of appearance):

ROLEX
OYSTER


PRECISION

SWISS
(at 6o'clock)

Need assistance from anyone who collects Rolex of this vintage.

Cheers :-)

[Terry Newton]

This seller is a TRF member.

Terry Newton

[idk01]

No Probs :-) Take no notice of the post if all is legit, Apologies!

Dave.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

This seller is a TRF member.

Terry Newton

Yeah, and?

The whole RO.LEX thing looks dodgy.

[Terry Newton]

Originally Posted by Timber Loftis

Yeah, and?

The whole RO.LEX thing looks dodgy.

I agree with you. I have no value judgment in my comment. Just stated facts, that he is a TRF member.

Terry Newton

[Orchi]

Err buddies...after looking at the pictures posted in the eBay auction...
listing...Orchi would NOT hesitate to report it to eBay...on grounds of...
misrepresentation...



That Dial on the watch(Pre Explorer?)...which is claimed to be...
"more than 40 or 50 year old...in mint conditions...
almost like new...yada yada yada..."
looks to be...a REDONE Dial...NOT done by Rolex.

1st of all...any Dial/Hands on a Vintage Rolex...
over 40+ year old or more...
said to be locked up in a safe over that long period of time...
would have to be in Gilt Glossy finishes...to begin with...
for which that Dial n Hands are...NOT.

2ndly...the earliest Rolex Explorer watches said to be made from 1952...
beginning with Ref 6098...6150...6298...6350...6610...
5500...5504...n Ref 1016(beginning 1959 )...
they were ALL fitted with Automatic movements...

Orchi can't recall having read any written material on Vintage Rolex...
that would mention any "Pre Explorer" models...

[vtime716]

i think this a winding movement model 6426, which dial has been redone and the hands change to the explorer type.

[Terry Newton]

Wow. Alot of stuff wrong with this watch Orchi. Thanks for all of your hard work in getting to the bottom of issues.

Terry Newton

[yiannis]

First of all guys,
the "RO.LEX" is because the ebay thing cant accept many listings of Rolex watches from a seller who is quite new and without a long selling history...
So the trick is to just "change" it a bit with a dot so when you list on ebay their system will accept you...
about you Orchi: from what i see from your reports you are really far away Mr...
You are the same who said that my DRSD is not right also... Are you the same person who reported me to ebay and they took out my listing? Are you the same who will pay for my loss if i will take you to the court? who do you think you are and who gives you this right to believe that you know everything by a photo??
As you did with the member "juliana something' on ebay too, where you said that all 3 watches were fine which i bought all 3 of them and the 2 are fake??????????????????????????????????????
Could you please answer to me why the DRSD was inspected all fine by RSC?
Can you really tell me what the "thing" you think you are doing and the only thing you do is to judje others?
I will ask a favor: if you are not sure then and dont be the wise guy.
Will you pay my loss about the 2 GMT i bought from this "juliana" member? unless you are the same person who sold these watches, you are promoting yours and you dig other's....

[idk01]

Yannis,

I am so sorry man, I feel real bad for posting your sale on here, I wish I knew it was your account on ebay. I Should have checked first on here before blarting my mouth off with the find, or at least PM'd a couple of the regulars on 'watchout' again deepest apologies.

Terry, Orchi, Timber Loftis, Vtime716, I also apologize to you too, I hop this has not soured any friendships with Yannis and for that matter myself.

Sincerely, Dave

[onkyo]

Dave,

DO NOT feel bad about this. You did nothing wrong. We are here to express our opinions regarding questionable watches so potential buyers can 'WatchOut' and not get ripped off.

Yiannis,

Respectfully, I would like to ask you..... Is that dial a re-dial? To me, it does NOT appear to be a 50 year old dial.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by yiannis

about you Orchi: from what i see from your reports you are really far away Mr...
You are the same who said that my DRSD is not right also... Are you the same person who reported me to ebay and they took out my listing? Are you the same who will pay for my loss if i will take you to the court? who do you think you are and who gives you this right to believe that you know everything by a photo??
As you did with the member "juliana something' on ebay too, where you said that all 3 watches were fine which i bought all 3 of them and the 2 are fake??????????????????????????????????????

Could you please answer to me why the DRSD was inspected all fine by RSC?

Can you really tell me what the "thing" you think you are doing and the only thing you do is to judje others?
I will ask a favor: if you are not sure then and dont be the wise guy.
Will you pay my loss about the 2 GMT i bought from this "juliana" member? unless you are the same person who sold these watches, you are promoting yours and you dig other's....

Err buddy Yiannis...that's some story of yours about the 3 GMT that you said you bought in eBay from that member...

Orchi can't recall your story...so if you don't mind...please post the relevant
eBay listings...or post your eBay feedback history that points to the related
purchase...

Please bear in mind...if a Seller post pictures of genuine GMT in their eBay
auctions...n WatchOut forum members may have been tasked to give comments...
(they would normally do...by looking at the pictures)
BUT IF the buyer ended up getting fake GMTs...that's a scam...to begin with
committed by the eBay Seller...

IF so...did you file a report with eBay or the local police?
Did you also highlight this in the WatchOut forum or the main forum?

So please provide the details...otherwise the conversation is baseless...

Nevertheless...coming back to this thread about DRSD in eBay...

That "DRSD" Dial in here...is REDONE wannabe...REDIALed to look like Mk.IV DRSD...
as Orchi stated clearly by comparisons with the REAL Mk.IV DRSD...
in the initial thread on the matter.

Please go to the appropriate link here...
if you want to further your discussion..

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=65182



The base plate may be genuine...BUT Dial plots n finishing is NOT.

Therefore...IF you have provenance that RSC has verified the originality
of the DRSD Dial...by all means DO it...n please provide the verification...
ASAP...

Oh btw...even RSC has been known to make mistakes...BUT definitely
they won't tell you that the Dial is Mk. IV...because ROLEX never called it Mk. IV to begin with.
The nicknames to ANY Vintage Rolex watches...are MOSTLY if NOT all...coined by avid collectors
worldwide...


http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/

However...coming back to this thread topic...Orchi repeats the same
finding of this Dial...to be REDONE...!

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by idk01

Yannis,

I am so sorry man, I feel real bad for posting your sale on here, I wish I knew it was your account on ebay. I Should have checked first on here before blarting my mouth off with the find, or at least PM'd a couple of the regulars on 'watchout' again deepest apologies.

Terry, Orchi, Timber Loftis, Vtime716, I also apologize to you too, I hop this has not soured any friendships with Yannis and for that matter myself.

Sincerely, Dave

Err buddy Dave...there is no necessity for apology...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions...whether constructive or not...
is immaterial...for as long as theirs are sincere n genuine...

IF the Seller attempts to post those same types of watches in the TRF's market...
WITHOUT disclosing the truth or actual facts about what they
are selling...n IF found to be guilty by the TRF Moderators...
the Seller would be BANNED permanently in TRF...

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by yiannis

First of all guys,
the "RO.LEX" is because the ebay thing cant accept many listings of Rolex watches from a seller who is quite new and without a long selling history...
So the trick is to just "change" it a bit with a dot so when you list on ebay their system will accept you...
about you Orchi: from what i see from your reports you are really far away Mr...
You are the same who said that my DRSD is not right also... Are you the same person who reported me to ebay and they took out my listing? Are you the same who will pay for my loss if i will take you to the court? who do you think you are and who gives you this right to believe that you know everything by a photo??
Could you please answer to me why the DRSD was inspected all fine by RSC?
Can you really tell me what the "thing" you think you are doing and the only thing you do is to judje others?

I will ask a favor: if you are not sure then and dont be the wise guy.

Err buddy Yiannis...WITHOUT fear or prejudice...
please consider Orchi is doing a great favour...
for YOU...n perhaps...
for many others whom may be reading this in the WatchOut forum...as well.

Please READ this...

...n please READ this also...

[Terry Newton]

After detective work done by Orchi I believe someone protesteth too much. In fact, I am shocked and saddened over the findings. Good job Charlie Chan; from Number 1 Son.

Terry Newton

[Gedanken]

It appears the moderation team will have to take a close look at this case. In the meantime, let's please keep things civil.

[Gedanken]

Okay, I've had a look at the information on hand.

I'm left with no other conclusion other than the fact that Yiannis has a lot of very awkward questions to answer.

At face value, there does not appear to be any flaw in Orchi's reasoning behind his conclusions regarding either the Explorer or the DRSD - the evidence he presents in fact appears to support his case.

In contrast, I don't see how Yiannis has a legitimate gripe with Orchi regarding this "juliana" affair - Orchi was not the seller.

In addition, one might not be able to confirm if a watch is the genuine item by virtue of photos, but one can easily demonstrate if the item is fake. By presenting facts and photos, Orchi appears to have done so, and the onus is now upon Yiannis to prove otherwise.

Finally, if in fact Yiannis could not prove to Casper that Orchi was wrong and that the DRSD was in fact genuine, dial and all, then the fault is with Yannis for not being able to prove it, not for Orchi in reporting it.

By looking purely at the facts and bypassing the rhetoric and defensiveness, it appears that there is reasonable cause to believe that Yiannis' items are not as described. Yiannis, if you do have evidence to prove Orchi wrong, please present it within the next week.

For this period I will reserve judgement. If you cannot prove Orchi wrong, then on the basis of the facts I have no alternative but to believe his accusations.

[yiannis]

Well Gedanken, that's Orchi's post about the watches i was talking about:
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthrea...t=julianna0215
I bought all 3 of them: 2 on auctions, 1 with an offer i made after the end of the auction. So please tell me...

[Gedanken]

Yiannis, you're not getting me. I'm trying to help you maintain your reputation here. If you're not going to work with me on this, I really cannot help you.

Let me be direct: I do not require you to talk about the "juliana" incident - Orchi was not the seller so the worst he could be accused of is providing inaccurate advice. To be blunt, it is irrelevant in the current discussion as explained in my last post.

What I do require you to do is to address the concerns regarding the pre-Explorer and the DRSD, in particular to prove that they were not re-dialled jobs.

[yiannis]

As about my watches, if Orchi is better on opinions than the RSCs then from now everytime i have to buy or sell i will ask his opinion.... nothing else...

[yiannis]

I am not a dealer Gedanken,
and i am not a watchmaker also. these are things i bought once and now i dont want them or i just need some money. I am not an expert, when i am not sure about something i ask and if somebody cheeted me i will not do to others. i prefer to eat them! what else can i do to prove that i am not an elephant?... As i said I respect other's opinion and thats why i bought these watches i said above. but happened finally this opinion to be wrong. cant it be wrong with my watches too? thanks

[Gedanken]

Yiannis, if you're going to be belligerent to the one guy who's trying to help you out, you are severely testing my patience.

Orchi has posted photos of a Mark IV DRSD and compared it to your photo, and your dial looks wrong. It's there for everybody to see, and based upon the PHOTOGRAPHS, not just Orchi's word, your DRSD looks to be fake. There's no simpler way to explain that to you.

If you have documentary proof that your DRSD is a genuine, non-redialled Mark IV DRSD, this is the time to provide the proof because you really do not look good right now.

The same applies to the pre-Explorer. As far as anybody else is aware, you have described a watch that Rolex never produced. Please provide documentation to prove them wrong.

On top of everything, this thread is about watches you have been selling, and I can't believe you categorically stated that you are not a dealer. This really looks bad for you.

I'll say it again. Your reputation is halfway down the toilet right now, and I'm the guy trying to help you out. If you're going to continue giving me attitude instead of helping yourself by providing proof that the guys are wrong, then you're going to be left standing alone and looking like a liar.

Cooperate with me and sort this out, or continue being defensive and destroy your reputation. Your choice.

[yiannis]

As i said Gedanken i am not a dealer, a watcmaker, or a watch expert. I just buy what i like, if i am bored with it or i believe that i dont want it finally i resell at ebay. so, about the 2 watches: for the DRSD i will wait the official written answer from RSC for it. as about the other it was boughten from ebay and relisted by me with this description same as i bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330297650139
The rest soon.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

After detective work done by Orchi I believe someone protesteth too much. In fact, I am shocked and saddened over the findings. Good job Charlie Chan; from Number 1 Son.

Terry Newton

Terry, these scammers always, I mean always protest the most and go on the defensive when found out. My opinion is . . .

[Gedanken]

John, as you can see in my correspondence with Yannis in this thread, we're trying to be as fair as possible in sorting this mess out. Under these circumstances, comments such as the one you made above are not at all useful.

Until such time that we have either established the facts or run out of time to do so, I would like everybody to refrain from making comments regarding scammers.

[Z-Sub]

Didn't he said in earlier thread that RSC already inspected it and authenticated it? Why is it now he is waiting for the final word from RSC? I don't get it.

[Gedanken]

Good pickup, Z. I did notice that earlier, but I'm giving Yiannis as much rope as possible at this point in time.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by yiannis

As i said Gedanken i am not a dealer, a watcmaker, or a watch expert. I just buy what i like, if i am bored with it or i believe that i dont want it finally i resell at ebay. so, about the 2 watches: for the DRSD i will wait the official written answer from RSC for it. as about the other it was boughten from ebay and relisted by me with this description same as i bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330297650139

Err buddies...the link takes us to the following eBay listing descriptions of
the "Pre Explorer" watch...by its previous eBay Seller - wolf0962 of Austria...

It says...in German...

"Seltene Gelegenheit für Rolex Sammler!

Rolex Precision mit Explorer Blatt

Erbstück und einige Jahre ungetragen.

Optisch ist das schöne Stück einwandfrei, technisch muß die Uhr einem Service unterzogen werden.

Laut meinem Uhrmacher ist ein Komplettservice + Tausch einiger abgenützter Teile (z.B. eingerissener Bodendichtung) notwendig.

Danach wird der neue Besitzer garantiert wieder viel Freude mit dieser legendären Uhr haben.

Papiere oder Box sind aufgrund des Alters dieses Modells keine verfügbar. Ich stelle jedoch gerne eine neutrale Uhrenbox zur Verfügung."

Is there anyone in this house...who might be kinder n able to translate the
German text to English...?

[Gedanken]

Translated on http://translation2.paralink.com/, it says:

Rare opportunity for Rolex collector! Precision Rolex Explorer with leaf heirloom and a few years unworn. Visually, the piece flawlessly beautiful, technically the clock must be subject to a service. According to my watchmaker is a full service + exchange some worn parts (eg, indented bottom seal) is required . Then the new owners guaranteed to enjoy this legendary clock have. Box or papers are due to the age of this model not available. I am happy but a neutral Uhrenbox available.

[wicky]

Originally Posted by Gedanken

Translated on http://translation2.paralink.com/, it says:

Rare opportunity for Rolex collector!
Precision Rolex Precision with Explorer dial
Comes from an inheritance and was only worn a few years
Visually, this beautiful piece is flawless, technically the clock needs to have a service.
According to my watchmaker, it needs a full service + some worn parts need exchanging (eg, indented bottom seal).
Then the new owners are guaranteed to enjoy this legendary clock once again.
Box or papers are, due to the age of this model, not available.
I will happily include a neutral watch-box.

-Eric-

EDIT: I changed a few words in the translated text as posted by Gedanken as I wasn't to sure everyone would know what a 'leaf' or 'Uhrenbox' was.