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ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
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#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Singapore
Posts: 46
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Why are there so many rolex without certs?
Probably been asked a million times before... I see so many rolexs for sale in the second hand market without certs. Is there any reason why this is the case? Most of the explanations seem to be that the owner lost it, but if I bought a 10k+ watch, u betcha life that I would be guarding the cert as much as the watch. And it's not only vintage watches too, I see alot of 1-2 year old watches that are missing certs. Is there something that I'm missing?
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#2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Real Name: Fred
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,697
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ADs have often kept them to prevent flipping on hot models. That explains part of the younger watches...
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Greetings from Switzerland Remember, the dignity you surrender at your AD‘s doorstep will never be recovered by wearing the watch he may get you. |
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#3 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Singapore
Posts: 46
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Thanks for your reply. What gives the AD the right to keep the cert tho? If I bought from an AD, I would definitely want the cert. Unless it's something to do with ADs offloading to gray market dealers?
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#4 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: 🇬🇧
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
If you didn’t agree, they wouldn’t sell you the watch. Strange, but true. |
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#5 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Jay
Location: England
Watch: SkyD
Posts: 6,351
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Some people just don’t care if buying the watch to keep it.
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#6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Good Hope
Watch: 124060
Posts: 1,596
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#7 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 37,234
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E |
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#8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Real Name: Steve
Location: Australia
Watch: 116619LB
Posts: 564
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Not everyone is so fussy about a watch purchase, some just buy them and do not think twice about resale value....until they get into trouble.
Some are also stolen property, some papers get lost moving house...there are lots of reasons apart from the ones above. I am currently missing a set of papers for a Jap sword, adds about $15K to its value but I am having trouble locating them, it happens after a few house and office moves. |
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Middle East
Watch: Rolex / Tudor
Posts: 3,592
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All the above plus a possible fake.
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Good watches are made to tell time but some brands are obsessed to tell it in the most beautiful way possible. |
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#10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Kings Bromley
Posts: 444
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I think with the older models people were not buying them thinking of future value so many times the papers were simply misplaced.
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#11 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: United States
Watch: Rolex and Patek
Posts: 10,984
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The older watches just had two year warranties. If you buy the watch to keep and it is off warranty what difference does the warranty card make. Most older watches are sold without papers, lucky to get the box.
Its only in the last several years that people began flipping and selling quickly so they kept everything to get the best price. |
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#12 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Real Name: Lee
Location: 42.48.45N70.48.48
Watch: Too many to list!
Posts: 33,385
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Certs past the warranty period up until recently were simply scrap paper without any real value. Only in a greed driven collector's reality does a scrap piece of paper hold value.
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#13 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,081
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The first thing my SO wanted to do when I bought her first Rolex was throw away the box and everything.
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#14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: London
Posts: 1,072
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In the UK, the warranty cards were released a few months ago. The AD's here are no longer holding them.
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#15 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Carolina
Watch: Rolex/Others
Posts: 46,362
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Some people do not want their names on cards that pass to others. Some are withheld by AD's to protect source identification in the secondary market. Others are lost, stolen or thrown away. I have no issue buying or owning a watch without the appropriate box and papers as long as it is authentic and I paid a reflective price.
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#16 | |
TRF Moderator & 2024 SUBMARINER Patron
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,351
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Quote:
The mania of keeping all of the bits and pieces is a relatively new phenomenon, but I would still say that the vast majority of watches will not have the old and obsolete papers or boxes. The condition of the watch should still be paramount. ![]()
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(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member |
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#17 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Atlanta
Watch: Milgauss / GMT II
Posts: 464
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Many pre-owned watches are sold wholesale at industry only trade shows. If you’ve seen the videos the majority of watches are sold in nothing but a plastic wrapper not the complete set. I’m thinking most complete sets are from private party trade-ins being immediately resold without going wholesale.
__________________
. Rolex Milgauss Black GV / Rolex GMT II Slate Serti Rolex 2-Line Submariner / Bell & Ross 03-94 RS17 Breitling SOH II - Brown 42 / Breitling 806 Re-Edition |
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#18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Real Name: Jack
Location: NYC
Watch: 16570, 16710
Posts: 1,535
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to some people only the watch matters, the rest of it is rubbish.
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#19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Real Name: Henri
Location: @ the golf club
Watch: LN LV BLRO BLNR
Posts: 274
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I am longing to own my 1st Rolex (pref a Black Sub Date). The AD would be welcome to keep all the packaging and all the certificates. I’d never sell it . I’d never take it off my wrist. In fact the AD can destroy all the docs as far as I’m concerned. In case there are any ADs listening out there ..... please please sell me one.
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#20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: US
Watch: sub
Posts: 2,371
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I've seen a few Rolex purchases completed in AD's and in only one case did the person leave with the box. That was a TT sub for a young guy. The others were PM purchases and the person left with it on their wrist. Probably had the card in their wallet.
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#21 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 8,282
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Quote:
I only buy complete sets with papers. For me the papers hold history provenance story and the dna of the watch. I love the background of each of my watches and therefore value the paper. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#22 | |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Japan
Watch: ing your back.
Posts: 16,179
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Quote:
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#23 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,492
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Do people really do that? I mean leaving it on your wrist is one thing. That's pretty common I think, but when I get something and leave wearing it I still take the box with me.
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#24 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Maryland
Watch: 16613, 16570
Posts: 622
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It's also relative. If you got a 200k bonus and you walk into a store to buy a watch, for 10k, you're not going to treat it, the box, or the papers the same way you would if it's something you really obsess over.
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#25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: CA-USA
Posts: 258
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I think a more interesting question is why are there so many empty Rolex boxes for sale on ebay and who is buying them?
Something about that doesn't sit well with me. I also don't like seeing empty Pappy Van Winkle bottles for sale. What are people doing with these things? |
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#26 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: US
Watch: sub
Posts: 2,371
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Quote:
I've seen a few people leaving with that suitcase thing the Omega moonwatch comes with. That thing is over the top. |
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#27 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2013
Real Name: Nick
Location: Las Vegas
Watch: 1601
Posts: 10,559
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Quote:
As Larry said, keeping tags, boxes, and manuals is a practice that is unique to us watch enthusiasts. Many of my colleagues who wear Rolex and other luxury brands but are not horologists don’t even recall if the watch came with a warranty card and their purchases are relatively recent. |
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#28 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,376
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Quote:
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#29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 124
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it's a sellers' market and they make the rules. if buyers have more power then buyers can make more rules. simple
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#30 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: California
Posts: 880
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Quote:
Why would you keep the papers for something out of warranty and nobody wanted? For example, the Paul Newman Daytonas weren’t popular in its day. Dealers were trying to give them away. So I bet many of them don’t have papers. In fact, I believe the actual Paul Newman didn’t have papers. Would people still buy that watch? Other things happen — life. People move, pass on and they lose things. Many Rolexes were purchased by military. Some of them probably couldn’t keep their box and papers. Point is there are a myriad of reasons it could happen. Now, of course, there are those that keep everything and we’re fortunate to have those historical records and it’s value reflects that. Look at that antiques roadshow guy with the Paul Newman. But that rarity reflects why it’s so valuable. As to recent watches, I think that’s more likely the current frenzy of FOMO and flipping than anything else. If someone offered you a used real DaytonaC for $15k with no papers, most people would take it. |
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