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#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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Real Kermit 16610LV?
Hi everyone,
I would like to know if this is a fake. No papers. It is supposedly a Y serial. The watch hasn’t been worn much and just kept in a safe for investment purposes according to him hence the condition. As seen in the pictures some factory stickers still on according to him. It hasn’t been opened or serviced since 2003, so I asked the seller to service the movements at a vintage watchmaker and take pics for me (attached below) before I picked it up. I guess the only way to be 100% sure is to send it to Rolex for a service but I’d like to hear your opinion as well, as I’d like to await a bit before doing that. Any input appreciated. ![]() ![]() ![]() . ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#2 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Hobart
Posts: 1,015
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I don't know if you can take a 16610, and put the LV bezel on to make a franken Kermit, but anyway - the movement pictured is genuine, and the pictures appear to show an unworn / little wear submariner of the correct vintage.
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#3 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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Quote:
The serial between the lugs at 6 o’clock does show Y96..... if that helps. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#4 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Max
Location: UK
Watch: Various
Posts: 3,727
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Quote:
I believe the bezel is exactly the same just green not black between the anniversary Sub & a standard Sub. The lume plots on the dial would be the giveaway between the LV & LN but as this appears to have the maxi dial plots, it would appear legit. However, with no papers or other provenance it’s impossible to say as the dials would be interchangeable also between the two, so if someone really wanted to, it wouldn’t be that difficult to ‘create’ an anniversary LV from a basic LN Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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instagram: max.parkin |
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#5 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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Looks OK from here.
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#6 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
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That said, it's interesting that the watch still has some of the factory stickers intact and appears to come with boxes/tags...but no papers. If the green hang tag pictured indicates "16610LV" with the matching SN, then that's a point of reasruance. Still, given the current value of these early LV Subs, I'd probably want to confirm (via RSC) that the watch did in fact start life as an LV, absent the original papers. YMMV. ![]() |
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#7 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Thanks for your input. The tags do not have the SN on them. According to seller this is a common thing with some AD’s where they take the SN off to keep for their records. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#8 |
SCUMBAG
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: uk
Posts: 341
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Looks fine
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Real Name: Adam
Location: Costa Blanca,
Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA
Posts: 5,288
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genuine
__________________
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." |
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#10 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Real Name: Adam
Location: Costa Blanca,
Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA
Posts: 5,288
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Quote:
Hence I think all original and genuine A
__________________
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." |
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#11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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#12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Real Name: Adam
Location: Costa Blanca,
Watch: YMII,GMTII,DAYTONA
Posts: 5,288
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__________________
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill "We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done." |
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#13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Louis Nick Ric
Location: Michigan, USA
Watch: Blnr, Expll, Subs,
Posts: 10,167
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I wouldn't put my money out there and pay that premium without papers. At that point the moneys relevant to go for a full set.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
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#14 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
Also, most of the ones that kept the tags would also insist that all case stickers be removed prior to sale (and this watch has them intact). Again, it looks fine and the SN removal on the sticker could be a non-issue. But (for me) it's just another reason to want to confirm the watch's origin prior to purchase, especially if you are paying an "early LV" premium. ![]() |
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#15 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
This particular watch looks to be in excellent condition though. So, I might be inclined to do a bit of leg work to confirm...if the price is right. YMMV. ![]() |
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#16 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Itinerant
Watch: 79010sg
Posts: 8,282
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Quote:
This is totally right. I would never touch a Kermit without papers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#17 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 239
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A perfect 2003 LV. Good find if the price was right.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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#18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Real Name: john
Location: Scotland
Watch: sub 16610Lv
Posts: 13,523
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RSC confirmation would be essential. It's the only way to know for sure.
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"AFTER DARK" BAR AND NIGHT CLUB GM. |
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#19 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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Real Kermit 16610LV?
Quote:
I have now bought it for around $22k. The reason I went for it (despite its missing original papers) is the excellent condition it was in. Really I couldn’t find a single scratch on it, and it being a Y serial. Re-saleability in a few years with those missing documents might be an issue perhaps I never doubted the seller as he has quite a large vintage collection so seemed to be in the known. I will send it in to RSC in a few years to be 100% though, as it’s just been independently serviced and seems to be keeping time well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#20 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
|
Real Kermit 16610LV?
Quote:
I have now bought it for around $22k. The reason I went for it (despite its missing original papers) is the excellent condition it was in. Really I couldn’t find a single scratch on it, and it being a Y serial. Re-saleability in a few years with those missing documents might be an issue perhaps I never doubted the seller as he has quite a large vintage collection so seemed to be in the known. I will send it in to RSC in a few years to be 100% though, as it’s just been independently serviced and seems to be keeping time well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#21 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
|
Real Kermit 16610LV?
Quote:
I have now bought it for around $22k. The reason I went for it (despite its missing original papers) is the excellent condition it was in. Really I couldn’t find a single scratch on it, and it had never been polished before and it being a Y serial. Re-saleability in a few years with those missing documents might be an issue perhaps I never doubted the seller as he has quite a large vintage collection so seemed to be in the known. I will send it in to RSC in a few years to be 100% though, as it’s just been independently serviced and seems to be keeping time well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#22 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
|
Real Kermit 16610LV?
Quote:
I have now bought it for around $22k. The reason I went for it (despite its missing original papers) is the excellent condition it was in. Really I couldn’t find a single scratch on it, and it being a Y serial, it’s also never been polished before. Re-saleability in a few years with those missing documents might be an issue perhaps I never doubted the seller as he has quite a large vintage collection so seemed to be in the known. I will send it in to RSC in a few years to be 100% though, as it’s just been independently serviced and seems to be keeping time well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#23 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Louis Nick Ric
Location: Michigan, USA
Watch: Blnr, Expll, Subs,
Posts: 10,167
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![]() Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
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#24 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,631
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Quote:
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WG SUB-116719 GMT MASTER II 126719 |
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#25 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Eric
Location: AZ
Watch: 4&5-digit Sub/GMTs
Posts: 1,974
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Quote:
OP: Congrats anyway though...looks to be an excellent example! ![]() ![]() |
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#26 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
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Real Kermit 16610LV?
Quote:
Thanks everyone. Really appreciate the advice you’ve given. I have never sent a watch to RSC before. How would you suggest I do it with this one? Just ask for an estimate at first? Tell them to just service movement and not replace any parts at all and not to polish it? Anything else to ask for specifically? Also how much would it cost approximately? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#27 | |||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 41
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks everyone. Really appreciate the advice you’ve given. I have never sent a watch to RSC before. How would you suggest I do it with this one? Just ask for an estimate at first? Tell them to just service movement and not replace any parts at all and not to polish it? Anything else to ask for specifically? Also how much would it cost approximately? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#28 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 37,234
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Quote:
16610 and 16610LV cases are the same on my "M"'s. ![]()
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#29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2017
Real Name: Louis Nick Ric
Location: Michigan, USA
Watch: Blnr, Expll, Subs,
Posts: 10,167
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Call Dallas RSC. They will send an insured shipping package to you. A basic service is now $800. You can request no polish. If any parts are not correct on it they will let you know. I hope I'm not missing any info and am correct as I do not have first hand experience with RSC.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk |
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#30 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
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Quote:
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