Best Vintage Rolex Submariner Date for everyday use

[topcat30093]

For several months now I have been looking to get a vintage Submariner Date. One that can be used for everyday, including swimming.
It would be great to have the amazing patina that the vintage models have acquired.

Initially and to a degree I would have gone for a 1680.
But research has suggested that using a watch that is 50 years old may not be the best model, for reasons of water resistant.
Though, I do wonder whether either a service dial, or a 1680 which regularly has its seals checked, may work?

Otherwise my other choices are the 16800, 168000 or 16610.
Which may or mayn't have acquired some patina.

I am seeking advice from the members regarding this subject.
Both pros & cons.

Of course photos are most welcome.

I am not considering a modern piece. And have since tried on the new 41mm Sub. But found it to be to large.
Thank you for any suggestions and advice.

[sishac]

I am going to echo your initial thought, for a 1680. If you have it checked for water resistance there is no reason why you can’t wear it every day. I have a 1680 with a service dial that is in permanent rotation with other watches such as a 5512, 1675, Omega Speedmaster and Omega Seamaster…each watch is pressure-tested each year. If it doesn’t pass, you can make it pass with new gaskets or whatever else it needs. Buy and wear what you love and don’t be afraid that the watch is 50 years old. Just my 2 cents!


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[Jackie Daytona]

I would say a nice matte 16800 would go well for what you are looking for. New enough that it should be good for swimming and daily use. Parts availability based off the age really shouldn’t be that bad either.

Although I don’t own a vintage Sub, my GMT is about the same vintage as a 16800 as I mentioned. Getting it serviced isn’t so bad, I still swim with it, and you can get a pretty nice matte 16800 for not too bad a price given Rolex prices these days.

[Dan S]

Actually, there is no guarantee that an older watch will be able to pass a pressure test suitable for swimming even after replacing seals, crystal, etc. It can depend on the condition of the case and case-back, and I don't think you really want to get involved in major structural repairs. So if water-resistance is really important to you, your best bet is to buy one that has already been tested, otherwise it is a bit of a crap-shoot. Then, if you are careful with it, keep it maintained, and have it tested regularly, you will probably be ok.

[MorningTundra]

Casual swimming and snorkeling is quite different to diving… Any case in average condition with new gaskets should be capable of passing a pressure test. What you’re looking to avoid is pitting and corrosion of the mid case. I swim regularly with a 1680, with no problems to report.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

Casual swimming and snorkeling is quite different to diving…

Absolutely true. But personally I wouldn't want to swim regularly with a five-figure watch unless it could pass at least a true 50m wet pressure test, including a condensation check. Not just the vacuum test that many watchmakers will perform and tell you that the watch passed.

Maybe I'm being too conservative, but TBH I personally don't feel the need to swim with a vintage Rolex.

[gilel]

Originally Posted by dan s

actually, there is no guarantee that an older watch will be able to pass a pressure test suitable for swimming even after replacing seals, crystal, etc. It can depend on the condition of the case and case-back, and i don't think you really want to get involved in major structural repairs. So if water-resistance is really important to you, your best bet is to buy one that has already been tested, otherwise it is a bit of a crap-shoot. Then, if you are careful with it, keep it maintained, and have it tested regularly, you will probably be ok.

+1

[Sub-Admiral]

Originally Posted by topcat30093

For several months now I have been looking to get a vintage Submariner Date. One that can be used for everyday, including swimming.
It would be great to have the amazing patina that the vintage models have acquired.

Initially and to a degree I would have gone for a 1680.
But research has suggested that using a watch that is 50 years old may not be the best model, for reasons of water resistant.
Though, I do wonder whether either a service dial, or a 1680 which regularly has its seals checked, may work?

Otherwise my other choices are the 16800, 168000 or 16610.
Which may or mayn't have acquired some patina.

I am seeking advice from the members regarding this subject.
Both pros & cons.

Of course photos are most welcome.

I am not considering a modern piece. And have since tried on the new 41mm Sub. But found it to be to large.
Thank you for any suggestions and advice.

Greetings dear friend,
I have recently serviced my 1680 (1978) and had the dial changed. The AD assured me that it is ready for swimming. I would never do that. However, I wear it every day and even while gardening or other activities that entail use of tools. Having said that, i think that a 16610 is the safest choice. Good luck with your choice.

[Sub-Admiral]

If I may inquire, a reference like 14060M no date is completely out of consideration? I never owned one. Just wore it a few times. It seemed like a very solid everyday watch.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Absolutely true. But personally I wouldn't want to swim regularly with a five-figure watch unless it could pass at least a true 50m wet pressure test, including a condensation check. Not just the vacuum test that many watchmakers will perform and tell you that the watch passed.

Maybe I'm being too conservative, but TBH I personally don't feel the need to swim with a vintage Rolex.

I agree - there's no substitute for a "good" service. Good advice.

I'm of the opinion that most vintage Sub owners underestimate the robustness of their old divers and treat them like delicate wallflowers. Some clearly deserve it, but most are still pretty robust and functional. Mine are at best "average" and sturdier and more water-resistant than the old geezer wearing them.

As a matter of interest, 50m is considerably deeper than casual Scuba diving. PADI's most popular certification, the Advanced Open Water Diver certifies divers to 21m (?). And the pressure differential from 30m-50m is far more than 0m-20m. My point being, most "average condition" 1680's can handle the 0m-20m without too much anxiety.

I firmly believe in wearing and enjoying your vintage Submariners and in the event of water ingress, get it to your watchmaker ASAP, with minimum fuss, drama, and panic. And if you don't have one, you should find one BEFORE investing in a vintage Sub.

[MorningTundra]

And because this thread doesn’t have a pic yet… this old 1680 (1976) has spent another summer in various backwater lakes and rivers. And the odd municipal swimming pool. It once showed signs of condensation on a trip from the tropics to the Rockies but a visit to the watchmaker showed nothing to worry about. [edit: yes, the Plexy is pretty scratched, but nothing a bit of Polywatch couldn't sort out]

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

As a matter of interest, 50m is considerably deeper than casual Scuba diving. PADI's most popular certification, the Advanced Open Water Diver certifies divers to 21m (?). And the pressure differential from 30m-50m is far more than 0m-20m. My point being, most "average condition" 1680's can handle the 0m-20m without too much anxiety.

PADI Advanced Open Water Divers are certified to 30m, although when I did my certification we did a "deep dive" to 120ft IIRC. And speaking as someone who teaches fluid mechanics at the university level, I can assure you that the pressure differential between 0-20m is exactly the same as from 30m to 50m, approximately a 2 bar difference in both cases. But I take your point, 50m is an arbitrary test, just something that gives me confidence. I don't like to see condensation inside the crystal. I also agree that the average vintage Sub, with proper maintenance and seals, can handle 20m.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by Dan S

PADI Advanced Open Water Divers are certified to 30m. And speaking as someone who teaches fluid mechanics at the university level, I can assure you that the pressure differential between 0-20m is exactly the same as from 30m to 50m, approximately a 2 bar difference in both cases. But I take your point, 50m is an arbitrary test, just something that gives me confidence. I don't like to see condensation inside the crystal. I also agree that the average vintage Sub, with proper maintenance and seals, can handle 20m.

I stand corrected, Professor. What am I thinking of? Viscosity? Why is it harder to breathe through a regulator at 30m vs 10m?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

I stand corrected, Professor. What am I thinking of? Viscosity? Why is harder to breathe through a regulator at 30m vs 10m?

It's true that the air is denser and therefore more viscous at depth, so there would be more resistance to flow. I don't recall noticing this, but it's a legitimate effect.

[topcat30093]

Thanks for all your replies and thoughts.
Especially to both Dan and Tundra for the more technical aspect.

To be fair, I can probably count on one hand how many times, that I go swimming per year.
But was setting my requirements a bit higher, to take into account such eventuality.

[1William]

Find the watch, make sure it has been serviced and passes the tests and go for it. Great reference.

[Old Expat Beast]

I have a 5513 from 1989 with a service dial (very similar to the original), hands, crystal and lume pip that was serviced and pressure tested by the RSC and is perfectly suited to daily wear.

[horologyhour]

16800 with WG Surround & Sapphire for me

[Styles Bitchley]

My daily watch for more than 20 years was my 1680 and I believe it is the perfect Rolex date in terms of aesthetics and feeling on the wrist. However, now that it is part of a rotation (I wear it less because the value makes me worry more) I find the lack of a quick-set date to be a pain in the ass. So my advice is to go 1680 if you actually wear it daily. Otherwise, go for a 168000 if you can find a nice one.

[zapokee]

I don't get the need to swim wearing an expensive vintage Rolex (like there's any kind other than expensive... ).

Sure, that's what Subs were originally made for, and it'll probably be OK if it's pressure-tested, but it certainly isn't zero risk.

That's what G-Shocks are for.

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I don't get the need to swim wearing an expensive vintage Rolex.

Sure, that's what Subs were originally made for, and it'll probably be OK if it's pressure-tested, but it certainly isn't zero risk.

That's what G-Shocks are for.

… you’re probably right. It’s deeply irresponsible, not at all sensible, and very foolish. They’re best kept for special occasions and worn sparingly…

I can only liken it to taking your Ducati to a track day. It’s not for everyone.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

They’re best kept for special occasions and worn sparingly…

Nah, wear them all the time. Beat them up. They're built like tanks.

Just not in the pool.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Nah, wear them all the time. Beat them up. They're built like tanks.

Just not in the pool.

I just kinda defeats the whole purpose to me. I mean, the entire reason I prefer old Rolex/Tudor over other brands is because they are still safe to use in the shower, pool, etc., as long as they’re taken care of. Plus, if I’m traveling or something, I don’t want to leave the watch unattended when swimming. If we’re talking full-on diving, I could understand, but regular swimming isn’t a big deal.

I remember when a lot of old timers in the Porsche club started driving their old 911s less and less when the values shot up, and it’s was a bit of a shame.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

Plus, if I’m traveling or something, I don’t want to leave the watch unattended when swimming.

Yes, that's a fair point.

But if possible, (e.g., hotel safe or somewhere else secure), I'd engineer a situation in which I wasn't wearing a 25-grand Red Sub in a public pool with god knows who and god knows what.

Mabe the risk is part of the thrill for some...

[topcat30093]

Well it seems to me that the 16610 is a rock solid bet.

16800 and 168000 are only slightly less of a risk due to the upgrades.

And the 1680 with a service dial/hands and had gasket/seals etc checked will be ok for my requirements.

But the 1680 with its more valuable patina on dial/hands. Should be ok for everyday use apart from swimming, in which case you take your chance.

Would that be a fair assessment?

[MorningTundra]

Originally Posted by topcat30093

Well it seems to me that the 16610 is a rock solid bet.

16800 and 168000 are only slightly less of a risk due to the upgrades.

And the 1680 with a service dial/hands and had gasket/seals etc checked will be ok for my requirements.

But the 1680 with its more valuable patina on dial/hands. Should be ok for everyday use apart from swimming, in which case you take your chance.

Would that be a fair assessment?

Honestly... it all comes down to your budget and risk tolerance.

[Sglass]

I would vote buy the best 1680 you can possibly get plus a G-shock or BB58 for when you are going to jump in a pool.

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I have a 5513 from 1989 with a service dial (very similar to the original), hands, crystal and lume pip that was serviced and pressure tested by the RSC and is perfectly suited to daily wear.

That looks superb.
Love the 2nd photo

Originally Posted by MorningTundra

Honestly... it all comes down to your budget and risk tolerance.

Very true.
On another forum that I frequent, I have been offered 3 x 1680 one is a white dial and the other two are reds. Sadly the reds are outside of my budget.

Originally Posted by Sglass

I would vote buy the best 1680 you can possibly get plus a G-shock or BB58 for when you are going to jump in a pool.

Well I am nearly there, I have both of those watches.
BB58, I wear everyday at the moment.
And the G Shock is now 22 years old and never gets worn (to big) and is probably no longer water resistant.

[cburrows]

This 16800 has surfed the world, swam 100’s of hours in pools. Its flown down Epic Waterslides (Leap of Faith!)and been beaten down day after day for decades. It once received a Rolex Service Dial and Bracelet (because Rolex USA NY said so) Never let me down. Tough as nails. Better crystal for hard service. Weren’t these made for this? Could I have kept this watch pristine, sure but why it’s been there with me… you can have a dress watch.

The (gold) 1680, I don’t even get wet when washing my hands.

The 16800 has been a workhorse! Get one, have it properly serviced and beat it up, it can take it. I know. I love it. It’s just sad they can’t be found used for $2500 anymore!

[miccro]

I asked this question to a watchmaker who worked for rolex service centre for 15 years. He said you can pressure test a 4 digit sub and be good to get in the water, however the Plexi can crack at its base even with a tiny knock, not visible but can let water in, he has seen it multiple times over the years on repairs and also on general services. His advise was to get an early sapphire reference to be safe