VC Historiques Cornes de Vache 1955

[jed11]

Despite being a very 'entry' level piece (relative to the rest of their offerings), after getting my VC Fifty Six, I've really gone down the rabbit hole a bit with the brand. And that path down the rabbit hole as led me to the Cornes de Vache chrono. Specifically, the stainless steel variant.

I absolutely love the the bi-compass chrono layout (not just in the watch but in general) and the 'two-tone' color of the dial is fantastic. Overall, the watch just has so much character.

Any owners out there? At this price point (new at retail), are there any others that come close? I think the Lange 1815 is a bit more correct? Of course only comes in PM so maybe not apples to apples and perhaps when comparing the movements, also not apples to apples.

I have yet to handle it in person so perhaps my infatuation in the watch will change after but any opinions/insight welcomed.

Thanks in advance everyone!

[GB-man]

You’re not alone. I’ve come very close to pulling the trigger recently. I love chronos and I love steel. It’s a great package.

[_speedmaster_]

Came very, very close to ordering one recently. Great sizing. Slim. Distinctive design. Historic chronograph movement. It’s a great watch for sure.

The 1815 chrono is indeed quite a bit more expensive than the steel CDV; the 1815 doesn’t come in steel and is more in line price wise with the PM CDV.

For a competitor to the steel CDV (based on price and movement) you can consider grey/used Breguet that use Lemania-based movements as the CDV does. The Breguet 3237, 5287, 5247 are examples. You can go slightly more vintage (90s) and go for a Roger Dubuis or a Vacheron 47101, both of which use the same Lemania movement as their base. In fact, the Vacheron 47101 uses caliber 1140 and the CDV uses 1142, which is a slightly more re-worked and finished movement, but it is essentially the same. The Breguet options and the 47101 will be cheaper than the steel CDV. The Dubuis, unfortunately, have caught the eye of collectors and have dramatically risen in price.

[Tongyk]

Mulling over this pc as my next big purchase to get; for the price, it is very close to the 36mm DD which i want in my collection.


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[jed11]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Came very, very close to ordering one recently. Great sizing. Slim. Distinctive design. Historic chronograph movement. It’s a great watch for sure.

The 1815 chrono is indeed quite a bit more expensive than the steel CDV; the 1815 doesn’t come in steel and is more in line price wise with the PM CDV.

For a competitor to the steel CDV (based on price and movement) you can consider grey/used Breguet that use Lemania-based movements as the CDV does. The Breguet 3237, c, 5247 are examples. You can go slightly more vintage (90s) and go for a Roger Dubuis or a Vacheron 47101, both of which use the same Lemania movement as their base. In fact, the Vacheron 47101 uses caliber 1140 and the CDV uses 1142, which is a slightly more re-worked and finished movement, but it is essentially the same. The Breguet options and the 47101 will be cheaper than the steel CDV. The Dubuis, unfortunately, have caught the eye of collectors and have dramatically risen in price.

Thanks for this insight and the recommendations! That said, while the Breguet refs are quite nice too, I'd have to go pre-owned to come close to what the VC new would be.

[jed11]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You’re not alone. I’ve come very close to pulling the trigger recently. I love chronos and I love steel. It’s a great package.

I'm shocked at how I've gone from the "not really looking at this" stage to the point where I'm very close to pulling the trigger!!!

[rolexfanforlife]

I have the gold CDV- it is one of my favorite watches! You should absolutely go for it- pure class

[SoylentGreenChi]

I saw this watch in person on Friday at the Chicago Boutique, and was instantly captivated. It’s gorgeous - well laid out, complex pattern design but still refined. The two-toned strap was also a highlight. Just a very well laid out piece top to bottom.

That said, after researching it this weekend, I e-mailed my Sales Rep to say that I am going to pass on the piece. Ultimately, it came down to price and opportunity costs. At the price point of ~40K there is fierce competition, including Lange 1 and the Lange up/down, both of which are less expensive than the VC. Also at that price point, you’re getting into Laurent Ferrier territory, and my, would I love to own a Laurent Ferrier.

Good luck! This is no doubt a spectacular piece, and seeing it in person will likely only make you appreciate it more!!

P.S. post pictures if you get it!

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by jed11

Thanks for this insight and the recommendations! That said, while the Breguet refs are quite nice too, I'd have to go pre-owned to come close to what the VC new would be.

The Breguet 3237 and 5247 are discontinued, so they would be pre-owned. The 5287 can easily be found new for the price of a CDV.

[Longhorn]

Personally it has a lot of competition at that price point for a gussied up Lemania based movement, and has held me back. It's a reboot of an old design and old movement, and to me I'm not sure the R&D invested into this model is in line with what I would expect to pay despite the good finishing. Perhaps at ~25K USD I'd be more comfortable with.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

Personally it has a lot of competition at that price point for a gussied up Lemania based movement, and has held me back. It's a reboot of an old design and old movement, and to me I'm not sure the R&D invested into this model is in line with what I would expect to pay despite the good finishing. Perhaps at ~25K USD I'd be more comfortable with.

This is ultimately why I decided to pass. There are a plethora of cheaper options that use essentially the same movement.

That said, the 1142 movement is finished to Geneve seal levels (was not previously), the lugs/case construction is complex an the dial features nicely applied indices and barrel vaulted hands. All of which add to the premium over, say, an Ed White speedmaster, the Breguet offerings or even the previous 47101 VC offering. You just have to decide if the added touches are worth the premium considering essentially they all use the same movement.

[Nav01L]

Fantastic watch with a beautifully finished movement. You may want to read through this, if you haven’t already:

https://www.thenakedwatchmaker.com/d...ornes-de-vache

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

Personally it has a lot of competition at that price point for a gussied up Lemania based movement, and has held me back. It's a reboot of an old design and old movement, and to me I'm not sure the R&D invested into this model is in line with what I would expect to pay despite the good finishing. Perhaps at ~25K USD I'd be more comfortable with.

All good points but as the premise of this movement is to be a reference to the history of the brand, I find the choice of the Lemania, which has defined the Swiss high watchmaking landscape for an entire era, quite befitting of the ambition of the watch. You’ll also find with such a piece that the finishing in the intricacies of a chronograph mechanism is so disproportionately more expensive than the movement itself at this level of execution that it really doesn’t matter where the base movement came from for the result to be in a relatively serious price range. Altogether, I think what VC wants for this watch is not unfair.

I mean just look at what a poorly executed mess AP will try to flog you for even more money…

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

All good points but as the premise of this movement is to be a reference to the history of the brand, I find the choice of the Lemania, which has defined the Swiss high watchmaking landscape for an entire era, quite befitting of the ambition of the watch. You’ll also find with such a piece that the finishing in the intricacies of a chronograph mechanism is so disproportionately more expensive than the movement itself at this level of execution that it really doesn’t matter where the base movement came from for the result to be in a relatively serious price range. Altogether, I think what VC wants for this watch is not unfair.

I mean just look at what a poorly executed mess AP will try to flog you for even more money…

A true comparison. I struggle with comparing the MSRPs of the CDV with the Overseas chrono, outfitted with its own in house developed movement, being a difference of ~10K USD.

[jed11]

I love this forum! Great commentary...
Yes, as said by several of you, I think I'm stuck on the sticker price too. It is Lange 1815 Up/Down and Lange One territory...and those are in PM. Again, different complication, layout, etc...
And the Up/Down is actually one that I also have in the mix as far as a potential new addition. What is making it more complex is that I have a Saxonia Outsize Date (RG/Black dial) and the aforementioned VC Fifty Six. Point being is that I have an offering from each already...so do I add the CDV or the Up/Down?

Lot to consider.

[jed11]

Originally Posted by Nav01L

Fantastic watch with a beautifully finished movement. You may want to read through this, if you haven’t already:

https://www.thenakedwatchmaker.com/d...ornes-de-vache

Great read! Thank you

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jed11

I love this forum! Great commentary...
Yes, as said by several of you, I think I'm stuck on the sticker price too. It is Lange 1815 Up/Down and Lange One territory...and those are in PM. Again, different complication, layout, etc...
And the Up/Down is actually one that I also have in the mix as far as a potential new addition. What is making it more complex is that I have a Saxonia Outsize Date (RG/Black dial) and the aforementioned VC Fifty Six. Point being is that I have an offering from each already...so do I add the CDV or the Up/Down?

Lot to consider.

This thread made it clear to me that the CDV is in a space with no other contenders in what it offers. An in-production "in-house" steel manual wind dress chronograph. If you are in the market for that, it seems like it's the only and by default, best, option.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

This thread made it clear to me that the CDV is in a space with no other contenders in what it offers. An in-production "in-house" steel manual wind dress chronograph. If you are in the market for that, it seems like it's the only and by default, best, option.

An "in-house" steel manual wind chrono (using essentially the same movement as the CDV) is the Omega Ed White. You can dress up a speedmaster too.

An "in-house" dress, manual wind chrono (again using essentially the same movement as the CDV) is the Breguet 5287. It's just not in steel. But for a dress watch, I'd argue you should have it in a PM.

In fact, you can find a Breguet rattrapante that uses the CDV's Lemania for under $30k, in white gold. Same great finishing. A guilloche dial. Objectively a more historic movement as it has the rattrapante addition.

I preface the below with the fact that i seriously considered buying a steel CDV last month. I may still buy it down the road. That said:
Not to start anything, but there are a plethora of options that directly compete with the CDV, especially if one is willing to look at models produced in the early 2000s. It seems as though people are ignoring these options because they do not have the cache of being a part of the holy trinity. If one wants a Vacheron, then only a Vacheron will do. If you like the look of the CDV, then only the CDV will do. But let's not kid ourselves thinking this is some ultra unique, class of its own competitor-less watch.

[llngoc]

I came very close to getting the steel CDV too and have a chance to handle the 1815 Chrono on the same day. The steel CDV on the calf strap gives a very nice vintage vibe and the size is perfect to me as a manual vintage look chronograph.

The 1815 is a much more refined piece. But my heart will choose the steel CDV even though my brain said 1815.

In the end, I am ending up with the Patek 5712G but that's another story for a very different reason. :-)

[jed11]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

This thread made it clear to me that the CDV is in a space with no other contenders in what it offers. An in-production "in-house" steel manual wind dress chronograph. If you are in the market for that, it seems like it's the only and by default, best, option.

Pretty simple right?

[jed11]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

An "in-house" steel manual wind chrono (using essentially the same movement as the CDV) is the Omega Ed White. You can dress up a speedmaster too.

An "in-house" dress, manual wind chrono (again using essentially the same movement as the CDV) is the Breguet 5287. It's just not in steel. But for a dress watch, I'd argue you should have it in a PM.

In fact, you can find a Breguet rattrapante that uses the CDV's Lemania for under $30k, in white gold. Same great finishing. A guilloche dial. Objectively a more historic movement as it has the rattrapante addition.

I preface the below with the fact that i seriously considered buying a steel CDV last month. I may still buy it down the road. That said:
Not to start anything, but there are a plethora of options that directly compete with the CDV, especially if one is willing to look at models produced in the early 2000s. It seems as though people are ignoring these options because they do not have the cache of being a part of the holy trinity. If one wants a Vacheron, then only a Vacheron will do. If you like the look of the CDV, then only the CDV will do. But let's not kid ourselves thinking this is some ultra unique, class of its own competitor-less watch.

Yes, a ton of options in this 'space' but lot of factors to consider. To me, a watch is a sum of all the parts...the movement, the complication, the dial, the finishing, the name on the dial, etc...
So yes, lot of competition but there is only on CDV, the same way there is only one Breguet 5287.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by jed11

Yes, a ton of options in this 'space' but lot of factors to consider. To me, a watch is a sum of all the parts...the movement, the complication, the dial, the finishing, the name on the dial, etc...
So yes, lot of competition but there is only on CDV, the same way there is only one Breguet 5287.

Right. This is what I'm saying. If you prefer the Vacheron name over Breguet, nobody will fault you. If you prefer the Vacheron for its aesthetics, nobody will fault you. Your preferences are your preferences. I'm just finding it somewhat comical the CDV is being painted as a peerless wonder, when that is not the case.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Right. This is what I'm saying. If you prefer the Vacheron name over Breguet, nobody will fault you. If you prefer the Vacheron for its aesthetics, nobody will fault you. Your preferences are your preferences. I'm just finding it somewhat comical the CDV is being painted as a peerless wonder, when that is not the case.

There are a lot of collectors that tend to prefer steel over PM for dress pieces; I'm not one of them, but the collectors that hunt steel Pateks come to mind. Fair on the Ed White, but maybe playing dress up is not part of the ethos of the watch, where the VC feels distinctly more formal... doesn't warrant the price difference, of course in my opinion, I think we both agreed on that.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

There are a lot of collectors that tend to prefer steel over PM for dress pieces; I'm not one of them, but the collectors that hunt steel Pateks come to mind. Fair on the Ed White, but maybe playing dress up is not part of the ethos of the watch, where the VC feels distinctly more formal... doesn't warrant the price difference, of course in my opinion, I think we both agreed on that.

For what its worth, I think the CDV looks best in rose gold.

Regarding pricing, maybe we are spoiled with Lange and the 1815 chrono. Apples to apples (both in gold) the CDV should not be prices similarly to the 1815.

[jed11]

You know what...I've been thinking about this more and more. I LOVE the dial layout of the CDV and again, love the overall 'package' and what it is offering. But again, value (a relative term of course) is one of the parts to take into consideration. I'm pretty confident I can get a marginal discount on this (new, from AD) but even so, I'm not sure that I can justify a SS watch even if we land the $35K-$37K range. I think in this price range, I'd need to be in precious metal territory.

As posted by one of the members, yes...there are folks who hunt for SS pieces. And we've all seen (and are seeing) what SS watches are doing in the market....new or vintage. But at this price point, I think all the potential upside of a SS is already baked in if that makes sense? I mean there's not a lot of high end dress SS chronos out there as we've discussed...none being offered PP or Lange anyway. So I do like that VC is offering us something. But the more I think of it, I'm not sure if the price point makes sense.

I'm not writing it off quite yet...still mulling it over.

So the more comments the better!

[CoveWatch]

Really like the CDV... it looks great and I personally prefer it over an 1815 chrono. Sure movement on the Lange is amazing, but i just dont like those lugs. Love the lugs on the CDV and I just think its a watch I would wear more than the 1815. All personal preference of course.

[Lindhuirst]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I came very close to getting the steel CDV too and have a chance to handle the 1815 Chrono on the same day. The steel CDV on the calf strap gives a very nice vintage vibe and the size is perfect to me as a manual vintage look chronograph.

The 1815 is a much more refined piece. But my heart will choose the steel CDV even though my brain said 1815.

In the end, I am ending up with the Patek 5712G but that's another story for a very different reason. :-)

This is just how I see this aswell.
Heart vs brain.

I dont know if it fair to throw in the Pateks in the discussion.
5070, 5170 and 5172.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by jed11

You know what...I've been thinking about this more and more. I LOVE the dial layout of the CDV and again, love the overall 'package' and what it is offering. But again, value (a relative term of course) is one of the parts to take into consideration. I'm pretty confident I can get a marginal discount on this (new, from AD) but even so, I'm not sure that I can justify a SS watch even if we land the $35K-$37K range. I think in this price range, I'd need to be in precious metal territory.

As posted by one of the members, yes...there are folks who hunt for SS pieces. And we've all seen (and are seeing) what SS watches are doing in the market....new or vintage. But at this price point, I think all the potential upside of a SS is already baked in if that makes sense? I mean there's not a lot of high end dress SS chronos out there as we've discussed...none being offered PP or Lange anyway. So I do like that VC is offering us something. But the more I think of it, I'm not sure if the price point makes sense.

I'm not writing it off quite yet...still mulling it over.

So the more comments the better!

I also handled the PM version of the CDV. I think the watch completely changed in PM. I personally would rather prefer the steel version as I prefer casual look. The PM version with alligator dial and the extra heft just does not work for me on this watch. So it all depends on what you are looking for.

If you think about it, there is not many (if any) manual high end chronograph in this price range. I think cdv is in a niche since it is the only one with steel offerings. I would not bothered by it not in PM since a SS Daytona is about the same and I would trade my Panda if someone offer me a CDV.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Lindhuirst

This is just how I see this aswell.
Heart vs brain.

I dont know if it fair to throw in the Pateks in the discussion.
5070, 5170 and 5172.

Agree and I am not trying to compare 5172 but just want to clarify that I did not get the watch in the end but for reason unrelated to the merit of the CDV.

I wish Patek would offer SS 5172 and save me $$.

[eliaalsayegh]

High recommend it