3235 Movement reliability and service cost

[gwozhog]

So I found this old article comparing the 3135 to the 3235 and it seems the guy who wrote it thinks the newer movement will need more costly service down the road. Anyone know the cost of a whole new rotor assembly for the new 3235 movement that he is talking about? Does not instill a lot of confidence in the newer watches Rolex is making us wait and beg to get.

http://bhi.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/...-the-Month.pdf

[amanbra]

That watchmaker has posted here btw...

Also have you stumbled across the 32xx thread? If you haven't grab yourself a nice cup of tea/coffee and search for it =) you're in for a wild ride.

[TswaneNguni]

3135 forever .

[Dirt]

At the time that was written, nobody knew what was to come in the future with the movement.
Don't get me wrong. There were quite a lot of us who were very buoyed by the prospect of a new movement series and everything it promised given the hype.
That was until the reality set in.

As I see it, the rare cost factor of a rotor replacement will pale into insignificance when the cost of multiple regular services start adding up just to keep it running in a fashion that resembles the claims made by Rolex

There is already one poor individual that has likely had the wool pulled over their eyes about servicing the 32xx movement.
They charged for the service whilst the watch was still in warranty when it probably should've been a warranty claim
The games have truly started on this movement

[alphadweller]

Servicing a 3235 movement costs the same as a 3135 right now The author of the article speculated it would cost more. Maybe it will if indeed a new rotor assembly is required down the road, or maybe not if it's included in the price of an overhaul.

If anyone was asked to pay more to service a 3235 compared to a 3135, please come forward.

[DJ4]

So what are the actual service cost?

For example for routine service, no polishing/troubleshooting

[Onequik135i]

No issues here w my 3235, I picked up the new subdate from the local AD April of 21. I just set the time last week & took a glance at it which is now running along w the atomic clock by about 2 seconds ahead.

[Mystro]

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[padi56]

Io

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

Have to agree way before phone apps and the magnificent men in there timegrapher machines, back then they bought Rolex watches to wear knowing they would last a lifetime whether 31 or now 32 series movements.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement...

Pretty much exactly where I land on it as well my friend.

[gwozhog]

Originally Posted by amanbra

That watchmaker has posted here btw...

Also have you stumbled across the 32xx thread? If you haven't grab yourself a nice cup of tea/coffee and search for it =) you're in for a wild ride.

Found the thread this morning. Sold my sub earlier this week with hopes of replacing it with a new TT subc. Don’t think I even want a new watch now. Will sit on the sidelines and wait for prices to come down on the older 3135 subs. Damn if their is one thing I hate in life is Change. It’s never good no matter how much they try to sugar coat it.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by gwozhog

. Will sit on the sidelines and wait for prices to come down on the older 3135 subs...

I think it may actually go up ,few years from now unworn 11 series Subs are going to fetch high currency .

[dannyp]

The 32xx “issues” aside, I wouldn’t expect service to cost much, if any, more. Most likely, Rolex has simply decided that a higher percentage of parts are disposable. Indeed, perhaps installing new assemblies is actually cheaper in terms of watchmaker time required to clean and service existing parts vs reassembling with new ones.

Also remember, watch companies that have standardized overhaul/service pricing typically seem to break it down by movement functions, not series. So there’s a price to service a time-only, a date, a dual time, etc. Patek has (out at least had) service estimates on its website. It had a price for servicing an automatic time-and-date movement, not prices for a 315, a 324, and a 330 (even though, for example, they have different frequencies and the latter also has a hacking feature).

The average Rolex owner isn’t thinking about movement series and will be put off by being told two different prices for two modern DJs because one was a 2018 model, the other a 2019. It won’t make sense. Rolex has always been about doing really complex things underneath in order to keep things easy and straightforward for the owner.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by padi56

Io

Have to agree way before phone apps and the magnificent men in there timegrapher machines, back then they bought Rolex watches to wear knowing they would last a lifetime whether 31 or now 32 series movements.

Yes I agree that a timegrapher and/or phone app is completely unnecessary if you're one of the unlucky 32xx owners. After all, you don't need a timegrapher or the internet to see losses of -10, -20, -30 seconds per day.

[Dirt]

A replacement rotor is going to be out of the ordinary so it's cost is undetermined at this stage.
The real problem is going to be more frequent servicing than is reasonable. Of course one could happily trundle along and reset the time every week because their watch is slower than a wet week and let the movement grind itself to a halt within a small number of years then get it serviced.

As I have pointed out above, it looks like there is already someone who has been charged for a service when it probably should have been a standard 32xx warranty fix just like the countless others that have been done to date.

It's the frequency of service that's going to be the critical issue.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Dirt

A replacement rotor is going to be out of the ordinary so it's cost is undetermined at this stage.
The real problem is going to be more frequent servicing than is reasonable. Of course one could happily trundle along and reset the time every week because their watch is slower than a wet week and let the movement grind itself to a halt within a small number of years then get it serviced.

As I have pointed out above, it looks like there is already someone who has been charged for a service when it probably should have been a standard 32xx warranty fix just like the countless others that have been done to date.

Did you read the article? Sounds like it’s not a question of a rotor wearing out, but a movement that is designed to have that assembly replaced, rather than serviced, at a normal servicing. If so, that would be factored into the decision to use that design in the first place.

[Tools]

I think that the article compares apples to oranges.

The rotor for example. In the 3135 it is an older brass bushing and axle, while on the newer models it is a ball-bearing race.

The latter will likely cost more to replace if it breaks, however, the older version was known to wear out quickly and always need replacement in a short time while the ball bearing race is very robust and not need to be replaced as often.

If you don't need to replace it, you save that money not spent - "more expensive" is a moot point.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Did you read the article? Sounds like it’s not a question of a rotor wearing out, but a movement that is designed to have that assembly replaced, rather than serviced, at a normal servicing. If so, that would be factored into the decision to use that design in the first place.

Yes I've read the article.
It's not just about the rotor. The rotor is an outlier issue in the real world. Though I will concede that it does happen and has happened as reported on this forum with some detail which may have been fixed under warranty

The opinion piece was written before the realities around the movement came into fruition.
The thread title addressed the full spectrum of servicing costs and reliability of the 32xx movement.
I was addressing the issue as a whole and as such, it's not going to be about an unlikely rotor change, on the balance of probability. There is a bigger ongoing issue which is afflicting a very large percentage of those movements that will have a more profound impact on reliability and must inevitably flow through into servicing. That is an inescapable fact

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

We’ve seen the second pinion wear. We’ve seen the low amplitudes. We’ve seen the dramatic slow downs. We’ve seen numerous members send watches back multiple times. We’ve seen the poll results of members with issues. We’ve seen at least two watchmaker forum members say they wouldn’t buy a 32xx movement in its current state.

Sometimes, a good company makes a poor product, and, like Porsche 996 owners did with the IMS issues, we should keep pushing for a fix, rather than turning a blind eye to a company that we think can do no wrong.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

The same owners have 31xx and other movements. Where are all the complaints. ESP when the 31xx are older now but still very few issues noted.

I have 4 omegas, 2 nomoses, 1 mech seiko, 3 Daytonas and had 8 32xx movements.

Only 5 of my 8 32xx have issues. Two of my omegas run at +12. I don’t care the movements are healthy but just not regulated well. The 32xx movement issues are different.

This will go down as a bad movement from Rolex.


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[Stan Cooper]

With the documented history of issues with 32xx movements, I'll be keeping my 16710 GMT II with a 3185 movement as my primary watch until I croak. It's 21 years old and is an accurate and reliable timekeeper; those are the attributes I value most in a wristwatch.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Yes I agree that a timegrapher and/or phone app is completely unnecessary if you're one of the unlucky 32xx owners. After all, you don't need a timegrapher or the internet to see losses of -10, -20, -30 seconds per day.

Hah! I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting a product to work as it is advertised to. Rolex goes out of it's way the advertise the +2-2 thing, even inventing their own "Superlative Chronometer" value and stamping it on every dial. They also go on about 10 year service intervals. Yeah not every customer will obsess over the marketing materials before a purchase but many will go into a Rolex purchase with certain expectations based upon the very things Rolex touts as a core value of the brand.

[DJ2020]

Yes, I agree. If the customer pays good money for A Rolex based on the advertisement, I am quite sure there expecting the watch to perform as advertised. If it doesn't, then why spend the money if it's no better than a watch 1/10th the cost? As it's part of the mystik of owning a Rolex (supposed to be the best).

Receiving a new Rolex only to have it fail in advertised service intervals and time keeping would leave a awful taste in the purchasers mouth. Not to mention all the other routine defects that come to bare time to time. (as all manufactures have). At best it would place a little distrust in the brand when considering a purchase of a newly released Rolex. Thus the heighted interest in the older 3130/3135 movements. I have to ask myself though. Is the 3130/3135 movements better? or is our expectations from older models just less? Difference in advertising from 3135 to the new 3235?

I do remember when I purchased a DJ2 it had the 3235 and never had a problem with it. It would run dead on for 23 hours and 59 minutes. It would loose 2 seconds while the date changed. I asked for it to be adjusted from whatever it was and increased +2 seconds. It was spot on for the next 4 years until I sold it.

At that time, the outgoing 3135's and the incoming 3235's both had the -2/+2 advertisement. (I think) Nevertheless, I do "trust" the 3135 a lot more because of the history Be it factual or not. I feel the 3235 is not a question if it will fail, But when. At least with current models.

I just don't think automated assemblies, best hand assembled movements. They lack the human intervention when something is not quite right IMO.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by gwozhog

Found the thread this morning. Sold my sub earlier this week with hopes of replacing it with a new TT subc. Don’t think I even want a new watch now. Will sit on the sidelines and wait for prices to come down on the older 3135 subs. Damn if their is one thing I hate in life is Change. It’s never good no matter how much they try to sugar coat it.

Yeah i'd wait if i were you.

I love change, but this particular change hasn't been a good one.

[gwozhog]

Here is a good video I found of the 3235 being serviced. You can see the rotor and the tiny little ball bearings at the beginning of the video too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCvEagCxdV4

[BLNR Nairobi]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex is Rolex and you either accept they know how to build and maintain their movements or not regardless if it’s a 31 or 32 series movement. Remember the 31 series movement never had the “advantage” of the internet or forums for owners to track and report their experiences. Rolex owners back then were not nearly as ocd enough to care even if they had the ability to report issues.

This!

There are many ‘legends of yore’ that would have been drawn and quartered had the internet and watch forums existed several decades back.

[Rado63]

3135 Nice movement.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BLNR Nairobi

This!

There are many ‘legends of yore’ that would have been drawn and quartered had the internet and watch forums existed several decades back.

I take your point.
It sounds like you've had some experience in this field

Would you be so kind as to share some directly comparable examples to the 32xx issue just to add proper context around the "legands of yore" aspect?
Happy to discuss

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Yes I've read the article.
It's not just about the rotor. The rotor is an outlier issue in the real world. Though I will concede that it does happen and has happened as reported on this forum with some detail which may have been fixed under warranty

The opinion piece was written before the realities around the movement came into fruition.
The thread title addressed the full spectrum of servicing costs and reliability of the 32xx movement.
I was addressing the issue as a whole and as such, it's not going to be about an unlikely rotor change, on the balance of probability. There is a bigger ongoing issue which is afflicting a very large percentage of those movements that will have a more profound impact on reliability and must inevitably flow through into servicing. That is an inescapable fact

Perhaps I misunderstood the article then. I thought it implied that the rotor assembly was just another disposable part, replaced as a matter of course during service. Was it in fact saying that if one part of the rotor assembly goes, the whole thing has to (but at typical service the whole thing can remain intact and as is)?