How does the condition of this 1665 look?

[ExplorerI]

https://hqmilton.com/products/1979-r...=shopify_email


Nice price reduction on this one and I’ve been in the market for a clean great white for a while now. Any thoughts?

[swaini3]

there's a reason for it. :) Inspect the dial closely...

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by swaini3

there's a reason for it. :) Inspect the dial closely...

According to the seller, the dial is EXCELLENT!

[Becca1]

Service dial


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[swish77]

Originally Posted by Becca1

Service dial


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Seems to be. Certainly doesn’t match the other dial variations.

More troubling is the very misleading description of the dial condition. No mention of the drag marks. This dial is far from “excellent.” Bad job by HQ Milton.

[Filipão]

Another "Buy the Dealer" down the drain...

[springer]

Originally Posted by swish77

Seems to be. Certainly doesn’t match the other dial variations.

More troubling is the very misleading description of the dial condition. No mention of the drag marks. This dial is far from “excellent.” Bad job by HQ Milton.

Don't forget that "excellent condition" case. It would be excellent for me if the lugs were repaired. I don't know or understand how there could be so much wear on the inner lugs. It is one of the worst examples of this type of wear that I have ever observed.

There is also plenty of wear on the dial - whether it is a service dial or not - it is far from being what most would consider to be in excellent condition.

Based on these observations, and him claiming the bracelet is from 1996 and the clasp having a VD code, I suspect that he retypes over his sales templates which might explain some of these listing discrepancies.

[swaini3]

Agree with all of the above. If that is 'excellent' then all my watches are NOS.

[1665fan]

It’s been like this for 2-3 years every watch is “excellent” it covers every basis…..well these dealers “excellent” and mine sure as hell are 2 different things……..let me know when a dealer says this one is a real turd….like that watch is ROFL

[77T]

Originally Posted by springer

Don't forget that "excellent condition" case. It would be excellent for me if the lugs were repaired. I don't know or understand how there could be so much wear on the inner lugs. It is one of the worst examples of this type of wear that I have ever observed.

I certainly agree with that. It seems someone ground down the backsides and then tried putting some grain back.

Do you think one of the lugs also got some laser welding, too? I circled what looks like patchwork…




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[KY..]

Originally Posted by Filipão

Another "Buy the Dealer" down the drain...

Exactly!
That’s why I trust no one who has a vested interest telling me how great the item they want me to buy is…

[hutch300]

I saw this price and was interested... then that dial... then that case... yikes. Hard pass - they sell a lot of misleading pieces. I find mistakes in many dealers ads. They clearly cut and paste - buyers have to be informed and take their time.

[karleone]

The case condition is very bad. Lugs are ultra thin over polished not straight and inner lugs completely worn. Hard pass.

[watchfreak207]

I am still trying to learn assessing vintage dials. So this dial is not ideal because:
1. there are slight circular damage to dial
2. the lume looks lumpy
3. the pumpkin colour is off?
4. how can u tell it is a service dial?
Thanks for your opinions.

[1665fan]

And to make my case and point there is a 116710ln gmt on the for sales corner from 2008 on the for sale forum right now from a “trusted seller” lol that’s has been polished soo many times it looks closer to a 5 digit and every lug is rounded off…..listed as u guesses It “excellent” my ass lol………basically thief’s at this point…..

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by watchfreak207

I am still trying to learn assessing vintage dials. So this dial is not ideal because:
1. there are slight circular damage to dial
2. the lume looks lumpy
3. the pumpkin colour is off?
4. how can u tell it is a service dial?
Thanks for your opinions.

Its no. 1 basically. These things happen whether during a service or overhaul but its the description thats not right and it effects the price. It is a service dial, the easily tell is the long curve of the f of 'ft', but you should always look at the whole dial.

[Dan S]

In addition to the hand-drag, there is also some additional dial damage near the top. A large faint white spot, and some fading to the minute track. The more you look, the more you will see. A dial like this can be fine for a non-collector if the price is right, because it looks ok at first glance and much of the damage may not be very noticeable on the wrist, except perhaps at certain angles. But the condition of the dial has a substantial impact on the value of the watch.

[watchfreak207]

thank you.

[zapokee]

Sad to see these guys getting lazy on their own success. They used to be so good. I bought from them all the time before a certain guy left.

It's like Pacino at the end of Scarface.

[TuRo]

I agree entirely with everything everyone has said about this watch 100%, and its condition is far from perfect and the cooky-cutter description is lazy, VD of course is late 70s clasp.

Even if on a fixed budget it needs to be $4-5k less at least, to be a daily wearer.

Moving away, a slight observation if I may, apropos of collecting in general, that I have noticed from talking to and observing various collectors.

I think ones tolerance to case and dial condition might depend somewhat on which end of the telescope or watch collecting journey you are coming from.

If you'd hitherto bought new 6 or 5 digit pieces at the start then migrated to 4 digit, you'll perhaps have a different perspective
(i.e. to keep as close to new condition on all your pieces), than say someone who started their collecting on say on 1940 pieces, and then the early professionals from 1950s eg 6202 tog, 6541 milgauss, 6204 / 6205 /6200 subs etc etc.... where finding anything close to a perfect original dial and case is/was almost impossible to find, and so obviously compromises had to be made to obtain a piece.

This frame of thought might continue with younger pieces sitting alongside.

[Noahgraph]

Nice one Paul. I can relate.

[indianmachine]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

I agree entirely with everything everyone has said about this watch 100%, and its condition is far from perfect and the cooky-cutter description is lazy, VD of course is late 70s clasp.

Even if on a fixed budget it needs to be $4-5k less at least, to be a daily wearer.

Moving away, a slight observation if I may, apropos of collecting in general, that I have noticed from talking to and observing various collectors.

I think ones tolerance to case and dial condition might depend somewhat on which end of the telescope or watch collecting journey you are coming from.

If you'd hitherto bought new 6 or 5 digit pieces at the start then migrated to 4 digit, you'll perhaps have a different perspective
(i.e. to keep as close to new condition on all your pieces), than say someone who started their collecting on say on 1940 pieces, and then the early professionals from 1950s eg 6202 tog, 6541 milgauss, 6204 / 6205 /6200 subs etc etc.... where finding anything close to a perfect original dial and case is/was almost impossible to find, and so obviously compromises had to be made to obtain a piece.

This frame of thought might continue with younger pieces sitting alongside.

Extremely insightful thought.

[springer]

Originally Posted by 77T

I certainly agree with that. It seems someone ground down the backsides and then tried putting some grain back.

Do you think one of the lugs also got some laser welding, too? I circled what looks like patchwork…




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That is a scratch - a tool mark - from putting in spring bars. I see them quite often.

[pierson]

Before it sold, I asked HQ Milton if it was, in fact, a service dial. They said no, and that it was original.

Any chance they are wrong? I thought they knew what they were doing.

Not that it matters, just curious about future

[TuRo]

No Aaron is correct - No production Great White ever had the base of the 'f' of 'ft' sitting over the E of SUPERLATIVE.

[pierson]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

No Aaron is correct - No production Great White ever had the base of the 'f' of 'ft' sitting over the E of SUPERLATIVE.

Interesting. I guess that HQ is getting lazy!

[dhknola]

HQ Milton has gone down the drain, I don't even bother keeping up with their offerings.

[watchfreak207]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

No Aaron is correct - No production Great White ever had the base of the 'f' of 'ft' sitting over the E of SUPERLATIVE.

I just looked thru the Mondani Submariner/Sea-Dweller book, yeah none of the Mk1-4 has the 'f' sitting over the E

[swish77]

Originally Posted by watchfreak207

I just looked thru the Mondani Submariner/Sea-Dweller book, yeah none of the Mk1-4 has the 'f' sitting over the E

Yup. Here's another great resource when researching vintage SDs, red or white. I spent hours on this site, and talked to/emailed Ed, before buying any of my four SDs. (Sadly, I no longer own any of them.)

Note the separate section just on Great White dials:

http://drsd.com/

[swaini3]

Many other known dealers will do the same, even if they knew. Its become a trend. Just sell, no ethics or honesty.