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#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: USA
Watch: Explorer I
Posts: 741
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How does the condition of this 1665 look?
https://hqmilton.com/products/1979-r...=shopify_email
Nice price reduction on this one and Ive been in the market for a clean great white for a while now. Any thoughts? |
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#2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Mo
Location: Dubai
Watch: 1675 GMT, DRSD
Posts: 1,449
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there's a reason for it. :) Inspect the dial closely...
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#3 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,110
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According to the seller, the dial is EXCELLENT!
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@oldwatchdan on IG |
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#4 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 209
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Service dial
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#5 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: CT/NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 6,898
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Seems to be. Certainly doesn’t match the other dial variations.
More troubling is the very misleading description of the dial condition. No mention of the drag marks. This dial is far from “excellent.” Bad job by HQ Milton. |
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#6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Filipe
Location: Lisbon & Wadesdah
Watch: Never too many
Posts: 1,898
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Another "Buy the Dealer" down the drain...
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#7 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,206
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Quote:
There is also plenty of wear on the dial - whether it is a service dial or not - it is far from being what most would consider to be in excellent condition. Based on these observations, and him claiming the bracelet is from 1996 and the clasp having a VD code, I suspect that he retypes over his sales templates which might explain some of these listing discrepancies.
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Mo
Location: Dubai
Watch: 1675 GMT, DRSD
Posts: 1,449
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Agree with all of the above. If that is 'excellent' then all my watches are NOS.
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#9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: East coast
Posts: 6,647
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It’s been like this for 2-3 years every watch is “excellent” it covers every basis…..well these dealers “excellent” and mine sure as hell are 2 different things……..let me know when a dealer says this one is a real turd….like that watch is ROFL
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#10 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Real Name: PaulG
Location: Georgia
Posts: 41,501
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Quote:
Do you think one of the lugs also got some laser welding, too? I circled what looks like patchwork ![]() Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Does anyone really know what time it is? |
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#11 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2021
Real Name: Keith
Location: California
Watch: 60s to 90s
Posts: 1,288
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Exactly!
That’s why I trust no one who has a vested interest telling me how great the item they want me to buy is…
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Just an admirer/enthusiast of vintage Rolex/Heuer/Zenith/Breitling/Hamilton watches since the 80s I Do Love The Details, But I Can Choose If I Accept The Flaws |
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#12 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,432
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I saw this price and was interested... then that dial... then that case... yikes. Hard pass - they sell a lot of misleading pieces. I find mistakes in many dealers ads. They clearly cut and paste - buyers have to be informed and take their time.
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#13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dayona
Posts: 2,269
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The case condition is very bad. Lugs are ultra thin over polished not straight and inner lugs completely worn. Hard pass.
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#14 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Singapore
Watch: ing You
Posts: 179
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I am still trying to learn assessing vintage dials. So this dial is not ideal because:
1. there are slight circular damage to dial 2. the lume looks lumpy 3. the pumpkin colour is off? 4. how can u tell it is a service dial? Thanks for your opinions. |
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#15 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: East coast
Posts: 6,647
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And to make my case and point there is a 116710ln gmt on the for sales corner from 2008 on the for sale forum right now from a “trusted seller” lol that’s has been polished soo many times it looks closer to a 5 digit and every lug is rounded off…..listed as u guesses It “excellent” my ass lol………basically thief’s at this point…..
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#16 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Mo
Location: Dubai
Watch: 1675 GMT, DRSD
Posts: 1,449
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Its no. 1 basically. These things happen whether during a service or overhaul but its the description thats not right and it effects the price. It is a service dial, the easily tell is the long curve of the f of 'ft', but you should always look at the whole dial.
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#17 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,110
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In addition to the hand-drag, there is also some additional dial damage near the top. A large faint white spot, and some fading to the minute track. The more you look, the more you will see. A dial like this can be fine for a non-collector if the price is right, because it looks ok at first glance and much of the damage may not be very noticeable on the wrist, except perhaps at certain angles. But the condition of the dial has a substantial impact on the value of the watch.
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@oldwatchdan on IG |
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#18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Singapore
Watch: ing You
Posts: 179
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thank you.
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#19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,361
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Sad to see these guys getting lazy on their own success. They used to be so good. I bought from them all the time before a certain guy left.
It's like Pacino at the end of Scarface. ![]() |
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#20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,712
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I agree entirely with everything everyone has said about this watch 100%, and its condition is far from perfect and the cooky-cutter description is lazy, VD of course is late 70s clasp.
Even if on a fixed budget it needs to be $4-5k less at least, to be a daily wearer. Moving away, a slight observation if I may, apropos of collecting in general, that I have noticed from talking to and observing various collectors. I think ones tolerance to case and dial condition might depend somewhat on which end of the telescope or watch collecting journey you are coming from. If you'd hitherto bought new 6 or 5 digit pieces at the start then migrated to 4 digit, you'll perhaps have a different perspective (i.e. to keep as close to new condition on all your pieces), than say someone who started their collecting on say on 1940 pieces, and then the early professionals from 1950s eg 6202 tog, 6541 milgauss, 6204 / 6205 /6200 subs etc etc.... where finding anything close to a perfect original dial and case is/was almost impossible to find, and so obviously compromises had to be made to obtain a piece. This frame of thought might continue with younger pieces sitting alongside.
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Another sunrise with my sad captains With who I choose to lose my mind And if it's so, we only pass this way but once What a perfect waste of time.... My Sad Captains - ELBOW |
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#21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Irrelevant
Watch: and learn
Posts: 93
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Nice one Paul. I can relate.
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#22 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 795
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Quote:
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#23 |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: jP
Location: Texas
Watch: GMT-MASTER
Posts: 17,206
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That is a scratch - a tool mark - from putting in spring bars. I see them quite often.
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Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics. |
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#24 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 403
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Before it sold, I asked HQ Milton if it was, in fact, a service dial. They said no, and that it was original.
Any chance they are wrong? I thought they knew what they were doing. Not that it matters, just curious about future |
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#25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,712
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No Aaron is correct - No production Great White ever had the base of the 'f' of 'ft' sitting over the E of SUPERLATIVE.
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Another sunrise with my sad captains With who I choose to lose my mind And if it's so, we only pass this way but once What a perfect waste of time.... My Sad Captains - ELBOW |
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#26 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Novato, CA
Posts: 403
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#27 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,169
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HQ Milton has gone down the drain, I don't even bother keeping up with their offerings.
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#28 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Singapore
Watch: ing You
Posts: 179
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#29 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: CT/NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 6,898
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Quote:
Note the separate section just on Great White dials: http://drsd.com/ |
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#30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Mo
Location: Dubai
Watch: 1675 GMT, DRSD
Posts: 1,449
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Many other known dealers will do the same, even if they knew. Its become a trend. Just sell, no ethics or honesty.
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