Neanderthal Daytona: A 3 million dollar Frankenstein with fake history

[pereztroika]

The following watch sold for 3 million Swiss Francs in 2018. The interesting dial was installed in a different watch in 1998 and the story that came with the watch is completely made-up.


https://perezcope.com/2022/11/03/rol...-goes-extinct/





Cheers
Jose

[Andad]

Thanks for an interesting read Jose.

[Filipão]

Unbelievable.

Thanks so much

[descartes]

Wow! Amazing scholarship. Much appreciated.

[subtona]

Wow. Amazing story and discovery.

The pursuit of Vintage has so many minefields.

[cascavel]

A great read and further confirmation that I should always buy my watches "new". And not just because I get to have my name on the paperwork.
It makes sense that the most valuable vintage watches are the most likely to be altered and by the most expert "restorers".

[Crown & Shield]

Awesome as usual.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by subtona

Wow. Amazing story and discovery.

The pursuit of Vintage has so many minefields.

Ain’t that the truth

[Toronto Soup King]

Wow, great post, thanks OP. Great WORK finding this out. Makes me glad I stick to, "Nice watches to wear" and leave the big pieces to the experts!

[1William]

Great post. Amazing what people will do.

[Kingface66]

Quick academic question here.
What is the lesson going forward? That these auction houses would do themselves and all prospective buyers a service by hiring someone with the incredible detective skills as Perez? Or, absolutely, positively, have incontrovertible proof that Rolex produced the given watch as is with documentation? Because, as it is now, it seems like without either of those, you’d be a fool to hand over an enormous sum on a “story”.

[1665fan]

Someone is out some big money…….auction houses are idiots when it comes to verifying watches and orginality

[1675-David]

Jose doesn't post very often, but when he does

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by cascavel

A great read and further confirmation that I should always buy my watches "new".

Or just don’t overpay for vintage. No reason not to enjoy ownership of “reasonable” pieces. Just beware of unicorns.


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[sski]

Great read. Watch went from being a Neanderthal to Big Foot!

[dustin.owens]

Great read.

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[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Quick academic question here.
What is the lesson going forward?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yfC_isiYs

[1675-David]

BOOM!!

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Quick academic question here.
What is the lesson going forward? That these auction houses would do themselves and all prospective buyers a service by hiring someone with the incredible detective skills as Perez? Or, absolutely, positively, have incontrovertible proof that Rolex produced the given watch as is with documentation? Because, as it is now, it seems like without either of those, you’d be a fool to hand over an enormous sum on a “story”.

In this case it took a few years to locate the dial in another watch in an auction catalog revealing its original configuration. It doesn't seem like it would have helped much having an expert on staff at the auction house. There would seem to be little that high end buyers of these apex watches can do to protect themselves other than to employ a lot of lawyers.
On the bright side, the flaws of this kind of "reach for the Stars" watch collecting can comfort those who are happy with attaining a beautiful, period correct but not unique, watch.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Or just don’t overpay for vintage. No reason not to enjoy ownership of “reasonable” pieces. Just beware of unicorns.


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Agreed!

[sski]

sorry, hate to be 'that guy' but i can't help but not ignore the elephant in the room- will the auction house / Mr. Bacs make it right for the buyer? or does the auction contract fine print rule out any recourse ? (essentially you're on your own if the magical carriage turns into a pumpkin)

[swish77]

Sherlock Holmes would be proud. Once you see the same stains on the dial, including the spot of "dried spaghetti sauce," you don't really need to see much else.

I deal with the major auction houses in the art world and I run into problems quite a lot. Most of the mistakes are made through incompetence and laziness by overworked and underpaid staff. I'd imagine the same issues exist in the vintage watch departments.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by sski

sorry, hate to be 'that guy' but i can't help but not ignore the elephant in the room- will the auction house / Mr. Bacs make it right for the buyer? or does the auction contract fine print rule out any recourse ? (essentially you're on your own if the magical carriage turns into a pumpkin)

Check out this just-dropped video. Perez (at around 36:00 in) discusses this, along with some other great thoughts on integrity.

https://youtu.be/iSkcjm2i2P8

[linesiders]

When you've seen so many watches and you recognize something where it should not be; )

I came across a Tudor 7016 MN with a bad dial / bezel before that I knew was not MN because I had owned the case years prior.

[southtexas]

Oh wow, this should be big news


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[sski]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Check out this just-dropped video. Perez (at around 36:00 in) discusses this, along with some other great thoughts on integrity.

https://youtu.be/iSkcjm2i2P8

thanks Kingface!

i'm subscribing to this thread; would love to know if there's any further development and/or a fair outcome reached amongst the parties.

[Osmin]

Watched the podcast today. Great episode!

Was there at any point any feedback from Phillips?

[Mark020]

They have other problems ;-)

[Greglaw]

Thank you, as always, Jose, you are such an incredible resource for the watch community!