The AD Mystery--SS DAYTONA.

[naptown airking]

Do you guys think the reason for AD not have SS DAYTONA's due to sales volume? Could that be the reason for certain people to have a 5 year or 10 year waiting list? Could be a gift from ROLEX for being the top AD seller for ROLEX?

HMMMMM.

Darrick

[JJ Irani]

I think it's just a production thing.

I find it hard to believe why Rolex cannot produce the SS Daytona in large numbers as they do the TT version. Same movement after all.

So it could just be a deliberate ploy on the part of Rolex to make one model hard to get and in fewer numbers.

JJ

[s7horton]

Rolex Reps play favorites. I've heard that from more than one AD..

They give watches to whom ever they want. I don't think it necessarily has to do with the volume you sell.

JJ, don't you shop at a large dealer? (The flea market doesn't count)

If you do shop at a large dealer, do they have SS Daytonas in the case? My guess is they probably don't.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by s7horton

Rolex Reps play favorites. I've heard that from more than one AD..

They give watches to whom ever they want. I don't think it necessarily has to do with the volume you sell.

JJ, don't you shop at a large dealer? (The flea market doesn't count)

If you do shop at a large dealer, do they have SS Daytonas in the case? My guess is they probably don't.

Seth,

I know you're kiddin', but Mansor's would make even the BIG guns in HK, Singapore and Taiwan look small by comparison. This guy's establishment and layout is something you've got to see to believe.

The display is superb. Several rows of glass windows with all the watches beautifully set up on their stands, using excellent backdrops, etc.

If you can some day make it down to my neck of the woods, it would be my pleasure to show you around this beautiful city of mine.

JJ

[s7horton]

JJ, that's exactly what I thought. So, my question is, does this guy have Daytonas on a regular basis, or are they hard to come by?

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by s7horton

JJ, that's exactly what I thought. So, my question is, does this guy have Daytonas on a regular basis, or are they hard to come by?

Only problem with that is he gets all his stock from Rolex HQ, Melbourne who, in turn, get their supply directly from Geneva.

He can order in an SS Daytona if I want one and he also gets them on a regular basis.....not sure about the exact quantity.

I'm NOT interested in one.

JJ

[RogerF]

Bottom line is that SS watches are not as profitable as precious metal watches. Example MSRP on a TT Daytona is almost double what a SS one costs, do you really think there is almost 7000USD worth of gold in the TT model?? That is why it makes more sense to make more precious metal watches. Remember the SS loving WIS crowd is small compared to the majority of the luxury watch/jewellery buying population where it seems BLING BLING is King! (hehehe that rhymes)

[s7horton]

In the US, I think the MSRP is 6995, and 11,000 for SS and TT. Definitely not double.

I think we have already established the fact that the difference between SS and TT in terms of price is much more than the actual value of gold.

This is the case where the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts. Unlike a car where the whole is worth LESS than the sum of the parts???!!!

[RogerF]

Originally Posted by s7horton

In the US, I think the MSRP is 6995, and 11,000 for SS and TT. Definitely not double.

I think we have already established the fact that the difference between SS and TT in terms of price is much more than the actual value of gold.

This is the case where the whole is worth more than the sum of the parts. Unlike a car where the whole is worth LESS than the sum of the parts???!!!

Sorry, I knew I was off but was just trying to make a point. Which of course you got :) (probably flew right over JJ's head )

Even at the price of 9500 that the TTs are sold at, the 2500+ price difference is about $500 in gold AT MOST (Again in la la land speak ) that means the Rolex gets to make a pretty penny.

Its exactly like it is with Cars (like your example) Leather interior costs $2Gs? DVD Navi worth $2500? Rust proofing and tinting worth another 250-300 each?? I DON'T THINK SO, HOMEY DON'T PLAY THAT!!!


Bottom line is that TT watches is a huge and very profitable market for Rolex and even though they could produce more SS Subs, Daytonas and start producing a new SS GMT now they would rather make more money.

Wow this is bring back something I learned in grade 8 Economics; opportunity cost. If you could only make 50,000 Daytonas a year, sure as hell you are gonna make the model that yields the most profit.

Wow I did learn something from school

[s7horton]

Yep, I did get your point..

You have to ask your self though, wouldn't they make up the cost difference in the volume they sell of SS?

Absolutely. There is more to it than just profit for them. I think they take great pride in making people dream and chase their watch for two years or more...cause simple fact is, they would make more money selling TONS of SS Daytonas instead of taking the increased profit of the TT.

Originally Posted by s7horton

Yep, I did get your point..

You have to ask your self though, wouldn't they make up the cost difference in the volume they sell of SS?

Absolutely. There is more to it than just profit for them. I think they take great pride in making people dream and chase their watch for two years or more...cause simple fact is, they would make more money selling TONS of SS Daytonas instead of taking the increased profit of the TT.

Yeah, but if they start banging out SS Dees, they flood the market and the model loses the mystique. So by taking what was essentially a non-seller even into the 80s, stopping production, causing a panic which drove the prices up on used ones, restarting production, albeit in limited numbers, they have created a mystique that has people scrambling to pay $3-4,000 more than retail for the 'priviledge' of buying one.

It's frustrating for those who are on a waiting list, but brilliant marketing.

[astcell]

The gold in itself may hold less of a value that the cost difference in the watches, but that is in comparing metals to one another. From a watchmaker's point of view, look at the "problems" caused by precious metals over stainless steel.

First, no doubt, is security. You need a safe for all the gold and platinum, whereas the steel can practically just sit out on the dock. You need secure shipping, guards, and higher QVC to ensure that you get the right quality of precious metal.

Second, you need to use different tools on gold and platinum as you would on SS. So now we have a whole new assembly line. Now maybe you need metal detectors to make sure a small gold link doesn't make it out of the factory, and if it does, now you have legal issues with en employee.

Now, will a gold Rolex perform any differently? Does the inherent differences in the metal cause any changes in case pressure at depth? How about regular wear and tear on the job? What about where the metal connects with other metals inside?

Since the watch is a different metal now you have to maintain a completely different set of records for it, lest it come in for service and leave with the wrong parts. Heck, making a watch in SS, TT, SG and PL is like making four completely different items in the same plant.

Yea, I think they earn it.

[RogerF]

Originally Posted by s7horton

Yep, I did get your point..

You have to ask your self though, wouldn't they make up the cost difference in the volume they sell of SS?

Absolutely. There is more to it than just profit for them. I think they take great pride in making people dream and chase their watch for two years or more...cause simple fact is, they would make more money selling TONS of SS Daytonas instead of taking the increased profit of the TT.

See the problem here is that they wouldnt make up for it by increasing the volume of SS daytonas, it comes back to opportunity cost.

Of the say 800,000 watches Rolex makes, lets say the machines, ppl etc can make 50,000 Daytonas out of them. For every $7000 SS Daytona they make they lose the opportunity to make a $11,000 TT Daytona, now for them to make it worth their while they would have to increase the price of the SS daytona considerably

[s7horton]

I guess it depends on the ratio of SS models sold VS. TT ones. That would give us a better idea, as right now it is strictly speculation.

Parts of the world demand different products. Asia prefers more gold, US prefers more stainless. Makes you wonder if the SS version is readily available on the other side of the world.

They do lose a sale on the TT, but doesn't that in turn create a bigger demand for the TT? In turn raising the profit even more?

[wonghonchung]

$4,000 difference seems reasonable to me for some gold in a watch, of course you'll never get gold in a watch for spot price!

I believe the popularity of the SS Daytona has been artifically inflated by Rolex themselves, these watches are quite common if you compare them to production of watches like the AP RO Offshore. If you really want one from an AD, you should go to Dubai, Riyadh or Abu Dhabi, as these don't sell well, people in the area like the TT and Gold ones more.

Here's an even more ridiculous difference:

Rose Gold Richard Mille 005- HK$280,000 list

Platinum Richard Mille 005- HK$560,000 list

The extra $1,500 worth of Platinum is a $40,000 US difference! That's ridiculous for ya.

Originally Posted by wonghonchung

$4,000 difference seems reasonable to me for some gold in a watch, of course you'll never get gold in a watch for spot price!

Here's an even more ridiculous difference:

Rose Gold Richard Mille 005- HK$280,000 list

Platinum Richard Mille 005- HK$560,000 list

The extra $1,500 worth of Platinum is a $40,000 US difference! That's ridiculous for ya.

How 'bout this... at RDV in Toronto a GP Worldtimer in platinum is CDN$55,000 on a leather strap. If you want it on a platinum braclet, it's $110,000.

[astcell]

Same could be said in the "cost" difference between a girlfriend and a wife!

[wonghonchung]

Originally Posted by Atomic

How 'bout this... at RDV in Toronto a GP Worldtimer in platinum is CDN$55,000 on a leather strap. If you want it on a platinum braclet, it's $110,000.

What's even more ridiculous is the GP Worldtimer in WG sells in Hong Kong for HK$150,000 list (CAD $22,000) with a standard 40% discount...... The Ti one is only HK$78,000 list (CAD $11,000) (Yep, I know the GP you're talking about, I've had it on my wrist too). Preowned, these things are only about US$9,000 (referring to WG).

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by astcell

Same could be said in the "cost" difference between a girlfriend and a wife!

[JJ Irani]

I guess we can also take the classical example of the SUB-Date.

SS Sub....current list price = $4520
TT Sub...current list price = $7100

So we wind up paying like an EXTRA $2600 for about a measly 26 grams of GOLD.

What the hell am I saying? A guy who's just about to get himself a TT Sub....in spite of owning an SS one!! I must be nuts!!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by RogerF

Bottom line is that SS watches are not as profitable as precious metal watches. Example MSRP on a TT Daytona is almost double what a SS one costs, do you really think there is almost 7000USD worth of gold in the TT model?? That is why it makes more sense to make more precious metal watches. Remember the SS loving WIS crowd is small compared to the majority of the luxury watch/jewellery buying population where it seems BLING BLING is King! (hehehe that rhymes)

Yes I would go along with that to a point,but it seems remarkable to me the amount of SS Daytona's find themselves on to the grey market.Well thats not really true,I do know its simple profit.