![]() |
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
![]() |
#1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,121
|
This is why Rolex will always be king
Article that primarily covers Swatch Group, but serves as the reminder why Rolex will always be king.
“ The problem is that the industry’s environment has since then dramatically changed with the high-end growing at a substantially faster pace than the middle-range and the entry price levels. This is by no means surprising or new phenomena, but an ongoing shift of the market since at least one decade. The two key words now are polarization and premiumisation, just similar to what is happening in any other luxury category. The high-end brands dominate the market, because they’re helped by a virtuous dynamic in which the higher you go in terms of prices, the more margin you are making.” “ CEO of the group Nick Hayek Jr. was told that the first and premiere goal of the Swatch Group is to have its industrial capacities running at full speed… In other words, the production pushes the market and not vice-versa, which to me is a very strange way to look at things the primary objective is that everyone has work to do.” No one is at the scale of Rolex when it comes to watches. They’re the only 800lb gorilla in the industry just dominating in the luxury segment, while everyone else (save the very high end brands like Patek but are a tiny fraction of volume compared to Rolex) is getting crushed and getting pushed lower down the luxury segment. https://revolutionwatch.com/swatch-group-business-news/ |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,530
|
Rolex is and will be king for a while, but I have this suspicion if they published numbers like Swatch and Richemont have to, you would have seen a decline as well.
Specifically, I wouldn't be shocked if the demand for most of their PM pieces have dropped like a rock. I see them displayed and available for sale quite regularly now. So why is steel sports still so hard to get? Well they are still in demand, but I also suspect ADs are doing what they used to before the market got hot. Bundling PM pieces with steel pieces out to greys to unload them. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2019
Real Name: Mark
Location: Southern England
Watch: DJ41 SubC SMP mast
Posts: 1,600
|
Quote:
Omega have created a lot of the problems themselves by upping prices (at least here in the UK) to where there the value proposition is (to my mind at least) questionable. I have often quoted the Seamaster diver 300m. Launch price 2018 £3600. Price now £5600. Moonwatch sapphire something like 4200 then, 7500 now. And if you took away the resale values of Rolex - and we have seen that to varying extent over last 2 years or so, then are some of these models true value either? Interesting times. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Hillsborough
Posts: 743
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NJ
Watch: 116610ln
Posts: 125
|
Rolex will "always" be king because of their marketing prowess. Not because of how great their products actually are. There are watches that are WAY better than Rolex. But the amount of people that actually believes in their marketing power has no boundaries.
I always told my watch friends that the absolute BEST watch in my collection isn't my one of my Rolexs, Tudors, or Omegas... But actually is my Citizen World Perpetual. It always accurate because its radio controlled with a tower in Colorado. It's a traveler's watch because you can set it to whatever country/time zone that you're in.. And also, the calendar is 100% accurate, I do not have to correct the date whenever it lands on an odd month... Not to mention, it's eco drive... I haven't taken it out of my watch box in over 6 months... And that sucker is still ticking, hold both accurate time and date. The other only watch that can compete with it would be my Casio GShock, which does almost the same thing. But to me, my Citizen World Perpetual is my KING of my collection. I know it's not a watch that commands a lot of attention, rarity, or money. But that watch for me ticks off every box that I would want in a watch. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Real Name: Brad
Location: Purdue
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 9,238
|
Quote:
Yep. All it would take is a reputation slide from persistent low quality or a marketing misstep to turn the tide toward other fashion brands like Cartier.
__________________
♛ ✠ Ω 2FA Active |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Real Name: Mike
Location: Socal
Watch: AP/PP/Rolex
Posts: 1,979
|
Quote:
Lot of truth in that statement. Bundling datejusts and PM models with the steel sport watches to greys was a real thing before COVID. Quote:
I clearly remember those days. lol. Many of the new collectors never saw those days when getting a discount on a Rolex and taking home the same day used to be the norm.
__________________
PP 5205G-013/ PP 5212A / AP 15416CE /26574 st QP/ AP 50th 16202st /AP 15500st Black / AP 26405CE / AP 77350CE / AP 15551st / AP 67540sk / Rolex 116500 Panda / Rolex 126710 BLRO / Rolex 126610LV Green / Rolex 16570 Black/ Rolex 116300 Blue / Rolex 126710 BLNR |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,530
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 1,530
|
Quote:
Like you said, they have been too aggressive with price hikes, and their move towards boutiques means less discounts, if any. Their marketing strategy seems faulty as well, they rely heavily on events that only come along once in a couple of years, like the Olympics or a James Bond movie. They generate some buzz for the brand, and then it goes away. They seem to be adapting a Rolex-like strategy of hoping to bundle watches with hype pieces that are more readily available at boutiques. Like the Snoopy or Ed White. This strategy has serious limits for no other reason than the demand for these type of watches is nowhere near what demand would be for, say, a Daytona. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Ice House
Watch: Ingersoll Mickey
Posts: 3,179
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: EARTH
Watch: What is "watch"?
Posts: 1,071
|
Came here to concur - Yes, Rolex will always be king. Always.
__________________
“UNpolished or I’m not interested” 😎 ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,121
|
Quote:
Rolex was king 10 years ago. They also were 20 years ago or 30 years ago. Yes demand and supply will change. Maybe people will stop wanting luxury watches as much as they do now. But there will always be a luxury watch industry, and Rolex will dominate it. I don’t see that changing for the next 50 years. Difference of being a private company that doesn’t make decisions based on quarterly earnings combined with incredible marketing prowess. Quality will rarely be an issue with Swiss companies. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NJ
Watch: 116610ln
Posts: 125
|
Quote:
![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Real Name: Harry
Location: England
Posts: 10,370
|
That reads like bot speak.
Hard to believe "This is by no means surprising or new phenomena" got past a human proofreader. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southeast
Watch: 214270
Posts: 2,674
|
Quote:
Never say never…
__________________
Never place your happiness on something you have or can physically acquire |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: US
Posts: 2,096
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Ice House
Watch: Ingersoll Mickey
Posts: 3,179
|
All of these companies got left behind by advancing technology. Luxury wristwatches are fascinating and desirable specifically because they are anachronisms. Smartwatches exist but they are superfluous commodities with zero emotional gravity, much like those products in your examples.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 76,248
|
Quote:
![]() ![]() At one time they were almost the same price. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 613
|
Quote:
Rolex will always be king because its brand perception is indoctrinated into everyone, even if you're into watches or not. If you're not into watches, you will still have heard Rolex but have a very different association with it than people like us do. The vast, vast majority of people couldn't give two hoots that the Rolex market has receded or that a BLRO is now trading 30-40% below it's peak on the secondary... most of them don't know what that is.... "oh the red and blue one, I think?" This is one of the most genius marketing campaigns of the 20th/21st century. You don't just do this overnight, and any brand would literally kill for this kind of recognition. And you're absolutely right, there are better watches out there, but nobody else makes a Rolex. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2023
Location: USA
Posts: 1,109
|
Rolex retains its position over generations because it doesn’t move much with the market. It sets its own market and shows great restraint in focusing on the long-game. If they were public they would look very different and would not be the success they are today.
They have outstanding quality, reliability and thematic design - all comes together (alongside marketing and smart limitations on production) to drive enduring value on all levels. Those who deride Rolex due to manufacturing approach, ubiquity etc - including those who give too much praise to independents and high horology, misunderstand Rolex and why it endures. Restraint is key. Rolex is genius in restraint. Ferrari was, for a time, another example of this. I’d argue Ferrari lost its way while Rolex has continued - partly due to governance and ownership structure. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: NY State of mind
Watch: love em all
Posts: 129
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 613
|
Quote:
I see this a lot too, I'm asked "what watch shall I buy" and it's so difficult to recommend things to people in this way, I hate answering this question. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Ice House
Watch: Ingersoll Mickey
Posts: 3,179
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1,121
|
Quote:
Exactly what I was going to say. Tech and luxury watches are completely different markets. It will take 25+ years to dethrone Rolex. An existing large manufacturer would have to make a lot of the right moves, making decisions for 10+ years ahead not a few quarters. Rolex would also have to have a lot of missteps. Looking at the current manufacturers, who’s a contender? I don’t see one |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 652
|
Rolex is the Harvard of luxury watchmaking.
Ask anyone who is into watches what is the best watch and they will have many answers in the same way if your asked students/professors which is the best university. However if you asked if you could have a degree from anywhere (similar to if you could have any watch), the answer would most likely be Harvard (Rolex). Not necessarily the best, just the one everyone wants.
__________________
Rolex Day-Date 118208 YG/Datejust 116139 WG/GMT2 116710 BLNR SS Patek Calatrava 5096 RG - Omega Speedmaster 3861 Sapphire SS - Cartier Tank Louis 1140 YG Panerai GMT 233 SS - Zenith ChronoMaster 01.0240.410 SS - JLC Reverso Duo Q2714910 SS Laine V38 SS - Grand Seiko SGBA407 SS - Baltic Aquascaphe SS - Garmin Approach S62 TAG Heuer Formula One - Swatch MoonSwatch Mission to the Moon/Mercury/Jupiter/Neptune/Lava |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#26 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: NY State of mind
Watch: love em all
Posts: 129
|
Quote:
$5-8K range Omega is the king; IWC, Panerai, Zenith, B&R are also good choices but Omega is without a doubt the king of this price range $2-5K you have the low end Omega's but also their sister brand Longines and the "high end" Hamiltons which you could argue both are better value for the money than the entry level Omega's at the same price. Then you're competing with Tudor, Ball, Rado, Tag Heuer, Doxa...when you're shopping the $2-5k range you really don't know what to buy because so many watches in this price range aren't good. Entry level sub $2k Swatch Group has Tissot & Hamilton, they just have so much overlap with their brands it doesn't take much to understand why each individual brand isn't thriving. Whereas Rolex makes a very good luxury watch and Tudor also makes a very good luxury watch in the $2-5k category and with more Tudor's coming equipped with METAS movements, they're starting to chip away at Omega's in the $5-8k category for less money. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#27 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: NJ
Watch: 116610ln
Posts: 125
|
Quote:
The same can be said about Rolex. The brand is always present and sponsors a million things. Whether it's a golf events, F1, tennis... The brand is always omnipresent. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#28 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: California
Posts: 595
|
Quote:
Omega boutiques... step into one. I'd be surprised if you don't hear the word "discount" within the first few sentences. It's full panic mode at Omega boutiques, the hard sell, FUD. Buy now, this discount won't be here tomorrow... |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#29 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: up a hill
Posts: 1,916
|
Counterpoint (not for those of a nervous disposition). The guy makes some excellent and IMO irrefutable points about Rolex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN5_...l=TheWatchBros
__________________
5513 - 16610 - 114300 (x2) |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#30 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: NY State of mind
Watch: love em all
Posts: 129
|
seriously I get at least 2 emails a week from my local Omega Boutique and I haven't visited them since March. They're directly next to a Rolex boutique and hurting.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.