Bought Rolex but received Empty Box--HELP

[helo008]

Hey all,

First timer on the forum here looking for some help and advice.

I recently purchased a Rolex GMT II from another TRF member on the classifieds section, and it was shipped overnight to me via UPS.

However, upon receiving the package this morning, I opened it up to find everything but the watch and "pillow" it comes on--the box, warranty card, booklets, extra link, and even a handwritten note from the seller thanking me for the transaction were all there. The white box in particular was a little dirtier than in the photos from the original listing, looks like someone's dirty handprints were on it. In other words, I opened the package to find an empty Rolex box.

The seller and I have since discussed the matter and he was as shocked as I was. We have filed police reports on both ends (we live in cities a few hours away from each other) and he is currently filing a claim with UPS. Luckily, the package was insured to the full value, but I'm worried the process will be messy given the package arrived but the watch was not inside.

My question is, what can I do at this point to recover my losses? Currently, I'm out the value of the watch (it was paid for via direct wire so the funds are with the seller), and while police reports were filed I'm skeptical the watch itself will be found.

Does anyone have advice for this situation or any experience with issues like this? Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you all in advance.

[Old Expat Beast]

Who is the seller?

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Who is the seller?

The seller is william21. He's been very communicative throughout the whole process.

The original listing is named: FSOT: ROLEX GMT MASTER II 116710LN Complete Set, Random Serial, Excellent Condition

[antbkny]

That’s terrible man. Does it look like the box was repackaged?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by helo008

The seller is william21. He's been very communicative throughout the whole process.

The original listing is named: FSOT: ROLEX GMT MASTER II 116710LN Complete Set, Random Serial, Excellent Condition

Did you check his references? Seems he has only sold one watch (yours) on TRF. Right now it's either him, you or a third party at fault, and while it's the seller's responsibility to get the watch into your hands after payment, it's his word against yours. Good luck. Hopefully the seller will get organised with the insurance and a refund.

[helo008]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Did you check his references? Seems he has only sold one watch (yours) on TRF. Right now it's either him, you or a third party at fault, and while it's the seller's responsibility to get the watch into your hands after payment, it's his word against yours. Good luck. Hopefully the seller will get organised with the insurance and a refund.

I did and found some positive references, but now that you point it out I realize those are purchase references, not sale references.

In addition to that we also exchanged Linkedins and talked a little on the phone, and I did some google searching to match up the phone number with real person and it all lined up.

Thanks for the good wishes--I really hope this concludes well. Would you happen to know how generally refund policy works in situations like these? Should I ask for one now or let things play out?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by helo008

I did and found some positive references, but now that you point it out I realize those are purchase references, not sale references.

In addition to that we also exchanged Linkedins and talked a little on the phone, and I did some google searching to match up the phone number with real person and it all lined up.

Thanks for the good wishes--I really hope this concludes well. Would you happen to know how generally refund policy works in situations like these? Should I ask for one now or let things play out?

There is no set refund Policy as such. TRF only supplies a space for folks to sell stuff, and they make their own policies. As long as no one breaks the law, or the sales forums rules, they can operate pretty much how they wish.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Right now it's either him, you or a third party at fault, and while it's the seller's responsibility to get the watch into your hands after payment, it's his word against yours. Good luck. Hopefully the seller will get organised with the insurance and a refund.

You bring up an interesting/valid point. While it seems that the OP is being honest/truthful about this matter, the fact is that buyer scams are just as plausible/possible as seller scams.
Not saying that's the case here at all, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time the old "I got an empty box!" scam was run.

Again, so far it sounds like the OP is being truthful, but just goes to show how "messy" these situations can become.
The mantra around here is always "buy the seller" but I think there should also be some weight given to "sell the buyer" as well.
This is especially pertinent if/when accepting forms of payment other than a bank wire. Just my $0.02...

[MinMay]

Originally Posted by freefly

you bring up an interesting/valid point. While it seems that the op is being honest/truthful about this matter, the fact is that buyer scams are just as plausible/possible as seller scams.
Not saying that's the case here at all, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time the old "i got an empty box!" scam was run.

Again, so far it sounds like the op is being truthful, but just goes to show how "messy" these situations can become.
The mantra around here is always "buy the seller" but i think there should also be some weight given to "sell the buyer" as well.
This is especially pertinent if/when accepting forms of payment other than a bank wire. Just my $0.02...

+1 Can you imagine more buyers making such claim "I got an empty box?"

[helo008]

Originally Posted by freefly

You bring up an interesting/valid point. While it seems that the OP is being honest/truthful about this matter, the fact is that buyer scams are just as plausible/possible as seller scams.
Not saying that's the case here at all, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time the old "I got an empty box!" scam was run.

Again, so far it sounds like the OP is being truthful, but just goes to show how "messy" these situations can become.
The mantra around here is always "buy the seller" but I think there should also be some weight given to "sell the buyer" as well.
This is especially pertinent if/when accepting forms of payment other than a bank wire. Just my $0.02...

Totally see what you're getting at and understand the perspective entirely.

All I can say is that the situation is such that I waited with my housemate for the watch to arrive this morning until 11am (despite scheduled delivery at 10:30am) so I could receive it in person, but had to send him off to the airport.

I received notice it arrived at the office of my building at 11:29am, which is a full glass area run by two employees that have been working there for years and receive dozens of packages a day, so I doubt they tampered with it.

I came home and picked it up at 12:18pm when I returned from the airport. Shot a message with the picture of the empty contents at 12:21pm to the seller, and called him 3 times within the next 50 minutes before he picked up and confirmed he had indeed not forgotten to pack the watch, at which point I promptly called the local PD, which had an officer there within 20 minutes.

After this happened I documented all of this in case it needed to be used as evidence later on. This is my second Rolex and I purchased it to celebrate my business hitting a milestone, and I had even been in talks with the dealer of my previous Rolex, an Explorer II, to sell my old one back to fund this purchase as it was supposed to be a "trade up".

I then came on TRF to seek some help and advice on this matter. All I can say is that everything I've said is entirely truthful, and that I would never do something like this. It hurts me to see that the fruit of my hard work has pretty much been spent on an empty box.

[Quamby]

Wow!!!!!

[05carbondrz]

Talk about a Nightmare!

[brandrea]

For real?

[tahitianmoon]

Did UPS open the box at the store or location to verify the content being shipped? If so, maybe its on security footage to prove it was last in their possession...

[cdmorenot]

Do you have evidence the watch was insured and that a claim will be filed ? Be careful, it may be a BS story to buy time to disappear with the moneys.

What an absolute mess. However, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it too much if the watch was insured.

I don't know where you're from but back when I was in College there was a group of students from my school who worked part time at UPS in Saddle Brook NJ and they were busted for having sticky hands with high value items.

Has the seller mentioned anything about a tamper evident seal of anything of that sort?

When I ship out a package I usually sign my name on a strip of tape. This way I know it has been tampered with. Good luck and keep us posted.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

[helo008]

Originally Posted by cdmorenot

Do you have evidence the watch was insured and that a claim will be filed ? Be careful, it may be a BS story to buy time to disappear with the moneys.

Thanks for the heads up, will do! The seller is a relatively public city councilmember though, which was one of the reasons I trusted him in the first place. So fingers crossed he won't disappear.

[roaddog359]

Originally Posted by helo008

Thanks for the heads up, will do! The seller is a relatively public city councilmember though, which was one of the reasons I trusted him in the first place. So fingers crossed he won't disappear.

So, you trusted a politician? I hope this works out for you but something smells fishy and I dont live near water. I would like to see the seller come in here and post!

[jackcarls0n]

That sucks. Sorry to hear about it. I believe in this case getting the claim through UPS is the best bet. Was the packaging in anyway opened or broken and repacked?

Someone knew the contents and it's value. Seems like a job on the inside. Most probably they won't recover the watch. Maybe UPS does an internal investigation.

It is good that the watch was insured.

[helo008]

The box was packaged and shipped at the UPS store. The seller mentioned that he brought the box packaged in the white paper sleeve that says OYSTER S SAP 39137 (with no other obvious labelling) and watched the employees box and seal it. Unfortunately, it was not sealed with tamper-proof tape, but when the local police officer came by to take my statement he noticed that one side of the box was double/triple taped, making it possibly it was tampered with?

On the other hand, it doesn't sound like it was opened to verify contents at the store...:(

[freefly]

Originally Posted by helo008

The box was packaged and shipped at the UPS store. The seller mentioned that he brought the box packaged in the white paper sleeve that says OYSTER S SAP 39137 (with no other obvious labelling) and watched the employees box and seal it. Unfortunately, it was not sealed with tamper-proof tape, but when the local police officer came by to take my statement he noticed that one side of the box was double/triple taped, making it possibly it was tampered with?

On the other hand, it doesn't sound like it was opened to verify contents at the store...:(

Yeah, probably not the smartest thing to box it up at the UPS store counter. There are plenty of "opportunists" out there savvy enough to recognize a Rolex box sleeve. I would be looking closely at the first points of contact who were privy to the package contents (UPS counter workers). As for verifying the contents (to rule out a seller scam), I would think that the package weight at the counter could be verified, and compared to the weight of what you received (a GMT IIc weights almost exactly 5 oz.).
If the weights were different, that would be exculpatory the seller (or inculpatory if the weights were the same).

Also, if you haven't already, I'd follow up with PD to confirm that the report was filed and the SN was entered into the NCIC database (stolen article file).
That will flag it if it shows up at any pawn shops that use NCIC-check software...and most do, especially on big-ticket items like this.
You might even call the local pawn shops within a 10+ mile radius directly every couple days to see if any of them get a GMT IIC in.
Google the SN every couple days, and keep an eye out on eBay and Craigslist as well.

[watchmework]

This is awful to hear but I hope you’re able to get it worked out. Best of luck with the authorities and insurance.

[Gharddog03]

Interesting!!! Hope it all plays out!

[Urosfan]

Sorry to hear about your situation I hope it resolves itself

[OgSnowflake]

How much would you like to insure the package for? “ NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS PLEASE”....Just asking to get robbed and the sad thing is you’re just doing what needs to be done to send somebody a watch.

No idea who the guilty party is here but if it was me I’d start my witch hunt at the ups store.

[roaddog359]

Originally Posted by OgSnowflake

How much would you like to insure the package for? “ NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS PLEASE”....Just asking to get robbed and the sad thing is you’re just doing what needs to be done to send somebody a watch.

No idea who the guilty party is here but if it was me I’d start my witch hunt at the ups store.

I am sure the UPS store has video footage of some kind.

[jvmartin]

He let UPS package the watch for him?? That's not a good idea at all... discretion is literally one of the only hands you have to play when shipping a high value item... insurance is great but it's insurance after all... no one goes looking for an accident just because they're insured... also, if the seller did send the watch and it was stolen by a UPS employee he is likely looking at your story about the watch coming up missing the same way you are looking at his... I wouldn't expect a refund until the matter is completely resolved by UPS...

[Sunny Arizona]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

He let UPS package the watch for him?? That's not a good idea at all... discretion is literally one of the only hands you have to play when shipping a high value item... insurance is great but it's insurance after all... no one goes looking for an accident just because they're insured... also, if the seller did send the watch and it was stolen by a UPS employee he is likely looking at your story about the watch coming up missing the same way you are looking at his... I wouldn't expect a refund until the matter is completely resolved by UPS...

No kidding....USPS Registered Mail only.

[htbilgic]

Originally Posted by Sunny Arizona

No kidding....USPS Registered Mail only.

I also recommend using USPS Registered Mail. It's veeery slow, but it's reliable. I had zero issues with it.

[jvmartin]

Originally Posted by htbilgic

I also recommend using USPS Registered Mail. It's veeery slow, but it's reliable. I had zero issues with it.

Ive had a registered package not turn up after being scanned at the Los Angeles sort facility... the worst thing about it was since they have such a large delivery window, nothing was looked into for weeks after it stopped moving... IMHO the best way to ship is FedEx... double boxed with tamper-evident seals/tape... insured through a 3rd party which specializes in watches and jewelry... priority overnight... packaged at home/office... with scan done and receipt in hand... and even then its still not 100%... I have driven 8 hours for a F2F... of course, it was worth my while...

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

Ive had a registered package not turn up after being scanned at the Los Angeles sort facility... the worst thing about it was since they have such a large delivery window, nothing was looking into for weeks after it stopped moving... IMHO the best way to ship is FedEx... double boxed with tamper-evident seals/tape... insured through a 3rd party which specializes in watches and jewelry... priority overnight... packaged at home/office... with scan done and receipt in hand... and even then its still not 100%... I have driven 8 miles for a F2F... of course, it was worth my while...

That about covers it but I would also check weight independently before drop off and on receipt printout. The more proactive the shipper the less chance you'll be taken advantage of by shipping company and buyer.