Rolex is getting a little cheap, starting to bother me

[Atl]

Good even all,
Had a good day, fell in love with another watch, and was helped by a stunning blonde, Sharon, at Neimans in Atlanta.
I bought a Jeager LeCoultre Reverso there about ten years ago, and while I love it, it, not being water proof, leather strap, and seems to me to be a little fragile (probably not) I just don't wear it much. So, today, just to kill some time, I walked in just to see what's new, when Sharon approached me and asked if I wanted to see the new Frank Muller's, I declined (do not like them at all) I then asked if I could see the new JLC's, when I saw it.... new larger case, complications, see-thru back, a new Reverso! I had to touch it, wind it, fall in love with it, I did not want to put it back, and when I saw the price, $7,000.00, I said, a Reverso with complications(reserve de marche, 8 day power reserve, and date), with a window to see the stunning workings inside when you flip it over? Then Sharon said that they could knock the price down a little because this is their slow period of the year, I didn't even ask for a discount! What a great day! I have to have this watch!
So, you might be asking, why the title "Rolex is getting cheap" I'll tell you why. As I was leaving, I was handed a Jeager catalog, not a catalog, a hard bound, 3/4" thick BOOK! Have any of you ever gotten a Rolex catalog from your retailer? Ever? Did you end up with a small folded one page pamphlet, or a tiny thin little 4" paper book? Or, most likely, NOTHING ?
And what about the missing anchors with our new Subs? That still bothers me. Yes it is trivial, but I have all three from my previous Subs since my first one in college. I was convinced my AD took mine as I could not believe my new Sub did not come with one, and felt like an asshole, when I went back to apologise, because he was right.
Another thing, we have an awsome site here, the best on the web, and we are all big fans, would it not be too much to ask for Rolex to recognise us, and maybe want to include their-selves in our family? A guest letter, a special event at an AD with all of us invited? A news letter or prior knowledge of a new product such as when the new GMT II will be coming out in stainless, before others know. A Q&A session online with us, something?
You know, when Roll Royce brought out their new car, I can remember them holding private parties at the dealerships all around the US
for their past customers, and previewing the car to them before anyone else. Neimans has In-Circle parties where the close the store to everyone else except their best customers, it makes us feel special.
If you think about it, we are their BEST salesmen, our passion and pride of ownership shows whenever someone approaches us and shows a keen interest in our watch. And another point, I have been invited to tour Jeager LeCoultre's factory, other manufactures offer the same, why not Rolex???

I LOVE my Rolex watches very much, I just wish sometimes, Rolex loved us back a little.

David

[JJ Irani]

Good post, David...and some very valid points. Yes, the one thing I've disliked about Rolex is their stinginess and "cheapness".

I've owned 6 Subs in my life - received anchors with all of my previous ones except the last one. That never bothered me....the anchor I've always considered a POS and bloody useless.

But why can't they instead give us a nice key-ring for our keys...something very ornamental with their logo on it. I managed to get one from my AD, but I think Rolex should have it as standard giveaway with every Rolex that a customer picks up!!

JJ

[s7horton]

Man, I'd LOVE to have a Rolex key chain. I know that my dealer would never give me one of those. Nice find!

Well David, Rolex does only what it has to to sell their watches, which in reality isn't much. Not because there are so many watch people like us around, but simply because it's a status symbol for 90% (or more) of those who buy them.

On the other hand, JLC is all about watches. Yes, they need to make money like any other business, but seem to be a company that bends over backwards for their customers and potential customers. Thier catalogue is much more than just a book of watches, but has the brand's history in it - I read mine cover to cover.

On other watch sites I have seen that JLC (and others) do put on events for watch people, and they have an event where you can learn how to work on one of their movements (lead by one of their watchmakers). Tours of the factory are welcome, and they have launch parties for new models that look fantastic from the pictures I've seen. In my opinion JLC is not only one of the best values in the watch world, with their innovations and staggering number of in-house movements, but they are also a company that appreciates the customer rather than just the customer's dollars or euros.

I am not terribly interested in trinkets from Rolex, but maybe a little more respect for their cutomers would be a good thing.

By the way, I love the reverso, but it never looks quite right on my wrist. I hope you are able to get the watch (I love my Master Moon and would seriously never part with it).

Originally Posted by Avalon

On other watch sites I have seen that JLC (and others) do put on events for watch people, and they have an event where you can learn how to work on one of their movements (lead by one of their watchmakers).

Our boy Shane (Southern Jessie) was invited to one of these events and from what I remember, he quite enjoyed it, although they didn't let him take any watches home gratis.

[Rockrolex]

I hear you, David. I happened to stop in to the Mayors in Boca Raton last year (as I usually do when I'm down there) and got to looking at some of the new JLC's (after perusing their Rolex stock, of course). As I was leaving (not having made a purchase - but of course wearing my GMT), the salesman handed me the JLC book. Like Al, I've read it cover to cover, and it has become a coffee table book. The rhetorical question is: Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

They don't need to for 99% of their customers, but it would be nice if they did certain things that other manufacturers do for their ardent fans/supporters. I mean the head of Panerai USA/Canada is reasonably accessible to www.paneristi.com and viapaneristi.com (and other sites) as is the Panerai CEO Angelo Bonati. THey both post on the sites periodically, attend the odd paneristi event and even make certain special editions available only to certain collectors.

Panerai has a better display box than Rolex (hands down) and they produce things like historical books, daytimers, hats, shirts and other trinkets for good customers. It's not a big deal, but the fans like them.

Rolex could win over a lot of their WIS fans if they did some of this. It would also be nice if RUSA was bought out by Rolex themselves, to give you Yanks better service and the A4 size catalogue the rest of the civilized world gets.

[Earl]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

I hear you, David. I happened to stop in to the Mayors in Boca Raton last year (as I usually do when I'm down there) and got to looking at some of the new JLC's (after perusing their Rolex stock, of course). As I was leaving (not having made a purchase - but of course wearing my GMT), the salesman handed me the JLC book. Like Al, I've read it cover to cover, and it has become a coffee table book. The rhetorical question is: Why can't Rolex do something like that? The rhetorical answer - because they don't need to. It's that simple.

Hmmmm, Ed to take this one step further, does your answer mean that JLC needs to do this to keep business?

Does JLC support charity as much as Rolex?
Is JLC privately owned as Rolex?
Does JLC promote their brand as much as Rolex.

Don't tell me they don't have to due to the quality of their watch, and Rolex doesn't give out this type of promo gifts because?

Just my observations and 2 cents :o)

[Southern Jessie]

Yep - as John said I was invited to a JLC workshop at their HQ in London in Jan 2004. Most of the people there were managers/salespeople from JLC ADs plus also journalists.

The watchmaster from Geneva showed us how to disasemble and reassemble the JLC 8-day power reserve. This movement would be used in the largest sized Reverso later that year.

It was a great experience and I was very fortunate to win a place. JLC were very generous - they gave away some merchandise and even the white watchmaker's jacket you see me wearing in the photo.

I was the only one with a Panerai at the event but I'm sure a lot of people liked it

Originally Posted by Atomic

Our boy Shane (Southern Jessie) was invited to one of these events and from what I remember, he quite enjoyed it, although they didn't let him take any watches home gratis.

[Southern Jessie]

Just to briefly answer this topic: personally I like the bits and pieces that come with a watch, pen, etc. I know at the end of the day it's the main product that matters, but to me, if I buy a £2500 watch I don't think it's too much to ask for it to come in a nice wooden box.

Look at the other brands and you'll see much better packaging. Even the early Princes came in a nice box....much better than the ordinary green ones. Panerai has cool pearwood boxes of different sizes. And it wouldn't cost a lot to make a nice wooden box.....anyone who has received a box from Rob on Paneristi (Daren...?) will know that he makes these as a hobby and they are 100 times better than the crappy box that Rolex supplies.

At the end of the day Rolex doesn't need to give anything extra - their sales speak for themselves, and the truth is most of us would rather have a reliable watch and rubbish packaging/accessories than a watch that comes with amazing packaging but gives trouble. However, the extra attention to detail and a bit more customer awareness wouldn't go amiss, would it....?

[mike]

Originally Posted by Avalon

I am not terribly interested in trinkets from Rolex, but maybe a little more respect for their cutomers would be a good thing.

Well said Al,
I remember the day when you bought a new Rolex and,among other things, you got the Chronometer certificate showing it's test results in different positions.
You had the feeling you not only bought a watch but the support and friendship of the company.
I remember the day that if I needed a new bezel inset for a sub or GMT my AD popped in a new one while I watched and sent me on my way.
I remember the day if I needed a new bracelet my AD had one for me, and gave me the old one back.
I remember the day when I bought my GMT, my AD said It will last a lifetime-- I assumed he was talking about MY lifetime.


Today, with Rolex curtailing support for certain vintage pieces and not servicing certain watches with "exotic" dials, I can only say Rolex, they weren't "exotic" when I bought them, and if you don't have a part--MAKE IT!

I have a great love and respect for the brand,sadly, the company has left me wanting.

Rant off.

[Launch Mini]

I forgot to mention that Jaeger book. I received one also.
It is truly a book, not a catalogue.

[Goodwatch]

Let me begin by saying I’m a sucker for those little ‘extras’. My Caran d’Ache pen came in a beautiful wooden box lined with alcantara. Would it write worse if it came in a little plastic box? No! Does the wooden box add to the price? Yes. But it’s just that little extra attention that makes a fine object even better as a package. Rolex don’t have to do anything to sell their watches. (But they still advertise). Even if the watches came in a brown paper bag they would be sold. So no beautiful wooden boxes, no elaborate warranty schemes (like Cartier used to have), no extras. Why should they? One of the answers could be: respect for your customers and the desire to do a little extra. Not because they have to but because they want to. Is it because in their corner of the market, they have no competition? Without competition and with customers who snatch your products from your hands, why would you bother anyway?

Is the part of the quaint way Rolex always operates? No yearly account of sales figures, no shareholders, a family owned trust, an iron grip on AD’s, an iron grip on pricing, etc., etc. This looks more like a monopolist than a normal business. Do they care about their image? I don’t know, the watches stay the same for decades and real innovations hardly occur. But a large part of the customer base, who only buy the name and the image couldn’t care less. Like most of the people around us. An automatic is a kinetic watch that doesn’t need a battery and was invented by Seiko about 10 years ago. And what do YOU know about it anyway, they say. Nothing, nothing, your absolutely right.

[colemanitis]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

An automatic is a kinetic watch that doesn’t need a battery and was invented by Seiko about 10 years ago.

A year ago I would've agreed with this statement. It's amazing to think Rolex had incorporated this technology into their watches in the early 30's.

Don't forget, last year Rolex spent $43.66 million on global advertising, which for basically a niche market company is a staggering budget. In fact, it's almost as much as what TAG, Citizen and Movado spent last year combined, on advertising (and they're the next three biggest spenders in the watch world).

Consider Cartier only spent 5.89 million on watch ads last year and PP only $5.37 million (and also consider they buy ads in magazines that cost way more than say Road & Track, where Rolex always has an ad).

By spending such a huge sum of money on advertising seems somewhat unnecessary to me (who works in public relations) given the depth and scope of the company's reputation and brand recognition. In fact, only two watch brands made the top 100 most recognizable corporate brands in the world... Rolex and Cartier, and yet Cartier spent 35 million-odd less than Rolex in advertising.

Yes, Rolex is a decent corporate citizen from a sponsorship, humanitarian, etc., standpoint. But I think if they took a more grass roots view of their die-hard customers, they wouldn't have supporters of the brand leave (and you guys know who you are ;~) and move on to other brands, is my guess.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Don't forget, last year Rolex spent $43.66 million on global advertising, which for basically a niche market company is a staggering budget. In fact, it's almost as much as what TAG, Citizen and Movado spent last year combined, on advertising (and they're the next three biggest spenders in the watch world).

Consider Cartier only spent 5.89 million on watch ads last year and PP only $5.37 million (and also consider they buy ads in magazines that cost way more than say Road & Track, where Rolex always has an ad).

By spending such a huge sum of money on advertising seems somewhat unnecessary to me (who works in public relations) given the depth and scope of the company's reputation and brand recognition. In fact, only two watch brands made the top 100 most recognizable corporate brands in the world... Rolex and Cartier, and yet Cartier spent 35 million-odd less than Rolex in advertising.

Yes, Rolex is a decent corporate citizen from a sponsorship, humanitarian, etc., standpoint. But I think if they took a more grass roots view of their die-hard customers, they wouldn't have supporters of the brand leave (and you guys know who you are ;~) and move on to other brands, is my guess.

Excellent info, Johnny. Thanks!

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Excellent info, Johnny. Thanks!

Hey, I'm not just another pretty face.

[sub2004]

Hi Friends

I do believe that all above made valid points on the topic.

For my "2 cents" it could be an element of exclusivity that rolex tries to preserve for the serious buyers. i.e. those customers who spend big bucks on rolex without having an internal love that we do of the brand.

For example i remeber when Omega started getting into the "trinket" market whereby wall clocks, shirts, caps etc could be obtained without too much difficulty. IMHO it cheapened the brand.

The same thing happened to a few "big" car brands: BMW, Ferrari started doing licensed apparell like shirts, pens, caps etc and that cheapened the brand back in the day.

Such items are still available, but albeit in a reduced amount. I remeber a decade ago when lots of people who didnt own the product still had an official team or brand jacket. Psycholigically this may upset certain niche buyers that Rolex caters for.

I also agree with the supply/demand argument;

I'm a lawyer. I charge $x for a commercial agreement or a legal opinion. The advice or work has certain set parameters upon which i do the work and charge the time scale or set fee. Why on earth would i want to spend an extra 2-3 hours "tweaking" or "making it better" when it does the job just fine and 99% of clients are perfectly happy. Two main factors: If i just started to "hand out extras" with the work, the "key" clients would not come anymore as they pay for a certain exclusivity with the legal work and 2nd if i started adding extras i would have to charge for it.

But yes, it would be nice to get some acknowledgment...

[Launch Mini]

The advertising budgets are a bit misleading.
These include huge sponsorships such as Wimbledon, Yacht races, Auto sponsorships.
Once these guys start these events, it is difficult to pull out without possible severe repercussions from a publicity point of view.

[Launch Mini]

On the topic of Swag, I have been patiently waiting for Panerai to send me the Yacht Caps I was supposed to have received upon registering my watch, back in Feb 2006.
There was a rumour , that they were not shipping to Canadian customers.
I just got off the phone from my AD, she has not heard this and has had customers who've received the product. Panerai is apparently slow in the delivery, but I have been assured, they will be coming.
( Atomic, your's should be in the system also)

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

I just got off the phone from my AD, she has not heard this and has had customers who've received the product. Panerai is apparently slow in the delivery, but I have been assured, they will be coming.
( Atomic, your's should be in the system also)

Woo Hoo!

[Launch Mini]

I think the demand for Panerai is high amongst a certain group, but generally the Company name is not that well known outside this group.
The production is easy to determine, each watch has a production number & production run. They do have a number of models, but if you add up the total production runs and models, you get the 35,000.
I have read, in some Panerai publication, they are keeping the runs down to 35,000 But will up this number to 40,000 ( the Ferrari Line up will increase the numbers)
Now, where I live, (Vancouver) the demand is very high. They manage to sell all they receive, usually before the next shipment arrives. This includes the rediculously prices ones also ( Over $15,000)

[Launch Mini]

I work with numbers all day, and tend to get immune to the large numbers thrown around.
I made fun of the 1,000,000/ year club. Yes , it is a large number, but break it down further. Lets just assume , the only market is USA & Canada. There are over 350,000,000 people. That breaks down to only 1 in 350 buying a Rolex in any year. Now you add the millions in Europe & abroad, those numbers don't look so big anymore.

[Mr.RadioActive]

Maybe Im just a new guy, but after buying a $8500 watch I was kinda disappointed to see a book that looked like it was printed in 1972 and the other book for the newest style datejust maybe looked from 1992. But I dont read the books. The watch sure looks sweet!

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Mr.RadioActive

Maybe Im just a new guy, but after buying a $8500 watch I was kinda disappointed to see a book that looked like it was printed in 1972 and the other book for the newest style datejust maybe looked from 1992. But I dont read the books. The watch sure looks sweet!

Can't say I blame you, pal....here take a look at these standard booklets that come with any Rolex. The first one shows the very old style Jubilee bracelet with the coronet sticking out over the clasp, as well as the older Oyster bracelet.....





And now take a look at the slightly improved newer booklet with the later Jubilee and Oyster bracelets. However, they still haven't brought in booklets with the very latest ALL SOLID LINKS Oyster and Jubilee bracelets.....God alone knows when that will happen!!

[mailman]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

And now take a look at the slightly improved newer booklet with the later Jubilee and Oyster bracelets. However, they still haven't brought in booklets with the very latest ALL SOLID LINKS Oyster and Jubilee bracelets.....God alone knows when that will happen!!

Maybe when you stop shagging sheep.

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by mailman

Maybe when you stop shagging sheep.

That was supposed to be a serious post...yeah, right!! In which century will you guys ever take me seriously? Dumb question, I guess!!

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

That was supposed to be a serious post...yeah, right!! In which century will you guys ever take me seriously? Dumb question, I guess!!

Well, lets see, you've lived through at least seven so far Could be this one, possibly the next though