5513 Sub 1966

[EAV]

I have a 5513 meters first / matte dial Submariner from 1966. Serial is 1,47x,xxx

Does anyone know about following:

1) What type that was used on these.
2) Case back stamped “VI 66.” Is this an error and does it add value?
3) Original box type (mine is white with green stripe / gold pinstripe. Interior is gold pinstripe / green box with coronet and white lining / green velvet board.)
4) Is a fat font bezel correct?

Thanks! :)

[EAV]

Correction:

* 1) What type of lume was used on these?

[lupus66]

1 tritium
2 known quirk no extra value
3 i know nothin of boxes

[lupus66]

4 yes fat mk 2 or 3

[EAV]

Thanks! Helpful!

[stmoore]

Originally Posted by lupus66

4 yes fat mk 2 or 3

66 is going to be a mk2 long 5, never came with any mk3.

[stmoore]

Originally Posted by lupus66

1 tritium
2 known quirk no extra value
3 i know nothin of boxes

Likely Zinc Sulfide / tritium mix found on the earlier matte dials, especially with a 66 caseback.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by EAV

3) Original box type (mine is white with green stripe / gold pinstripe. Interior is gold pinstripe / green box with coronet and white lining / green velvet board.)

Boxes are tricky, as they were chosen by what the dealer had on hand. Plus consider this: A dealer gets a 5513 in 1967. But, it's got a 66 casebacok stamp. He could've had it on display, or in the back, for a while. Even a year, or longer. By the time he finally sells it, it could be 1968 or even 1969. Then he puts it in a box he has in stock, which could be from the mid-60s or, even a new one from the late-60s. Could be a green outer box, could be a white w green stripe, etc. You just can't know for sure.
That said, I believe the white box w green strip AND gilt trim, with a green box (is it pyramid or flat top?) with white silk inner lid I've seen w watches from the 70s

[Dan S]

I have a 1.54M VI 66 (long 5 insert) with what is believed to be the original box (I bought it from the original owner). I will post photos if you post photos.

The outer box is dark green with gilt coronet and ROLEX on top, Rolex sticker on the side. The inner box is green with gold pinstripe, pyramid top, no markings outside. Interior is white satin with gilt coronet and ROLEX inside the lid and a grey velvet liner and watch holder spring-loop inside the bottom.

Interestingly, I received the box with a Submariner brochure inside with a 1969 copyright and the watch came with a 1970 C&I bracelet, so my watch may have sat unsold for quite a while (original papers did not survive unfortunately). As Andy mentioned, I have heard that boxes were matched with watches at the time of sale, and if that's true, one might not expect watches manufactured at the same time to have the same boxes.

[EAV]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Boxes are tricky, as they were chosen by what the dealer had on hand. Plus consider this: A dealer gets a 5513 in 1967. But, it's got a 66 casebacok stamp. He could've had it on display, or in the back, for a while. Even a year, or longer. By the time he finally sells it, it could be 1968 or even 1969. Then he puts it in a box he has in stock, which could be from the mid-60s or, even a new one from the late-60s. Could be a green outer box, could be a white w green stripe, etc. You just can't know for sure.
That said, I believe the white box w green strip AND gilt trim, with a green box (is it pyramid or flat top?) with white silk inner lid I've seen w watches from the 70s

Green flat top box with gold pin-striping.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by EAV

Green flat top box with gold pin-striping.

That's later, from the 70s. I have a '75 1601 and a '77 1680 with the green flat top boxes.

[Harmon Rabb]

Some knowledge here it seams. Is there any new view about the transition between gilt and matte dials. Did Rolex mix gilt and matte dials on the 5513 from 1966 and around 1.4x m series or is it established that it’s matte meter first from there on?

I guess it’s hard to know exact when they made to switch to the matte meter first dial. They probably used up the parts they had.

Was it only Bart Simson gilt dials at the end of gilts or was there another gilt dials that are also correct? I’d guess the matte dial also is correct from that era 66/67 since it from the end of the gilt era and the beginning of the matte.

Sorry for asking these questions.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Some knowledge here it seams. Is there any new view about the transition between gilt and matte dials. Did Rolex mix gilt and matte dials on the 5513 from 1966 and around 1.4x m series or is it established that it’s matte meter first from there on?

I guess it’s hard to know exact when they made to switch to the matte meter first dial. They probably used up the parts they had.

Was it only Bart Simson gilt dials at the end of gilts or was there another gilt dials that are also correct? I’d guess the matte dial also is correct from that era 66/67 since it from the end of the gilt era and the beginning of the matte.

Sorry for asking these questions.

I’ve seen Bart dials on 5513s with ‘65’ stamped case backs and ‘67’ case backs, and with 1.3m serials and 1.4mil serials. It’s all hazy with Rolex!

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I’ve seen Bart dials on 5513s with ‘65’ stamped case backs and ‘67’ case backs, and with 1.3m serials and 1.4mil serials. It’s all hazy with Rolex!

Thank you. I guess that’s makes it equally correct to have a matte or gilt Bart Simson around those years and serial numbers.

But then I guess that many have swapped dials many years later. That makes it even harder to really know.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb

Thank you. I guess that’s makes it equally correct to have a matte or gilt Bart Simson around those years and serial numbers.

But then I guess that many have swapped dials many years later. That makes it even harder to really know.

Not to get too semantical, but it’s not exactly about years, per se, but rather serial numbers and date stamps on casebacks (not to mention papers) that no one can really pinpoint to an exact year. There’s WAY too much crossover to pinpoint the “year” of every watch.

[Harmon Rabb]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Not to get too semantical, but it’s not exactly about years, per se, but rather serial numbers and date stamps on casebacks (not to mention papers) that no one can really pinpoint to an exact year. There’s WAY too much crossover to pinpoint the “year” of every watch.

I figured that one out a few years ago but hoping that it’s easier to pinpoint serial numbers and date stamps on watches today as more watches changing hands with as time passes by and social media where people post their findings. All that also makes it quite vague as no one really know if a watch is true and original during the transitional years between gilt and matte.

It’s to bad Rolex doesn’t have an archive that they can share if someone want to check out a watch. Maybe Rolex doesn’t really know themselves. It was not important at the time.

[EAV]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

That's later, from the 70s. I have a '75 1601 and a '77 1680 with the green flat top boxes.

It has a fabric lined top on the interior.