Tudor Submariner Snowflake Franken?

[overgrower]

I took a gamble on the bay with a Tudor Submariner. But unfortunately it seems to have some issues.

1) missing the case reference number between the 12 o’clock lugs
2) serial number 761246 should make this a reference 7021/0
3) It has a quickset date, and from my understanding 7021/0 have an ETA 2484 which is non quickset. It is also non-hacking seconds.

I don't have tools to remove the caseback.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[harry in montreal]

Nice watch. It’s legit

[harry in montreal]

I realize now your questions and concerns. It could have had the dial and movement from a 9411 swapped in. Overall it is a nice one and likely a victim of an old repair rather than a Franken. I was monitoring this one on eBay and then it was sold. .

[overgrower]

Any concerns about the missing case reference number? And doesn't the 9411/0 movement 2784 have a hacking seconds? Thanks!

[harry in montreal]

Well, it could have been a bad endlink, or worst case someone filed it off... but the serial number is there. What does the inside of the caseback show? I.70 etc?

[overgrower]

I don't have a caseback remover so I haven't had the chance to pop it off!

The case and dial looked pretty legit to me when I first received it. Just raised some flags when I noticed the quickset date and the missing case ref #.

[Scaramanga74]

Lovely patina! Looks great :) Case, dial, hands and bezel look legit to me. Does it have roulette date wheel?

Some 7021s has it, some don´t.

[linesiders]

You need to get the back removed and take excellent photos

Should be a 2484 movement. Hottible photos - almost make it look fake.

Looks like an S rather than ZUBMARINER dial

[overgrower]

I'll have to find a watchmaker to remove the caseback.

The acrylic is pretty scratched up, so it's hard to get a clear picture of the dial.

I know it should be a 2484 movement, but I'm already certain it isn't because it has a quickset date function.

Upon closer research it seems like the dial is a 94110 Type B because it has a longer Tudor shield and the “m” and “ft” in the bottom print are in bold compared to the rest of the fonts.

[harry in montreal]

The bezel insert has aged more like a 9411 from my observations anyway. Is the dial blue ?

[jdog111578]

Dont necessarily need a watchmaker to open it up. A rubber ball or balled up roll of duct tape , with some of the sticky on the outside, will work in a pinch.

It could be the poor photos but the scratching on the serial side and model side of the case looks intentional. And not just from years of removing and installing a bracelet with the end links rubbing.

[overgrower]

No, the dial is black.

So I guess I'm looking at a case from around 1971 with a later 1980's service dial and movement?

The date wheel is not roulette and looks like a metal date wheel.

[overgrower]

Any possibility that this is a 9411/0 with a case serial of 76x,xxx?
I tried the rubber ball technique and wasn't able to remove the caseback.

[Scaramanga74]

The case looks fantastic :) Nice bevels.

[Kingsking]

I can't find the original listing on the bay , can somebody link me ?

[JustinK]

It could be the poor photos but the scratching on the serial side and model side of the case looks intentional. And not just from years of removing and installing a bracelet with the end links rubbing.[/QUOTE]

I noticed this as well, does not look normal but could just be the pics.

[zapokee]

If Harry in Montreal and Linesiders both like it, then my money is on it being OK. These are the two guys to ask about Tudor divers.

[harry in montreal]

It was a fantastic deal. How does the band look?

It’s a terrific watch

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by zapokee

If Harry in Montreal and Linesiders both like it, then my money is on it being OK. These are the two guys to ask about Tudor divers.

There are some things I like about this and some things I reserve judgement without better photos.

[harry in montreal]

John, do you agree that the back is more consistent with a 7021, and not a 9411?

[overgrower]

Thank you all for your feedback. I really appreciate it.

I polished the crystal up a little and took more pictures in the daylight. Hopefully these new pictures will help @Linesiders in his evaluation?

[overgrower]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

It was a fantastic deal. How does the band look?

It’s a terrific watch

Thanks Harry!

Band is a 7836 folded link oyster with 358 end links.

Bracelet is in good shape. I’d say 10- 20% stretch.

Clasp is a standard Tudor clasp with a K1 date code.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

John, do you agree that the back is more consistent with a 7021, and not a 9411?

Case (nice) and caseback are 7021 - consistent with serial # and easy for OP to check ; ) . The second set of photos are better and confirm a few things that were obscured - like underside of crown guards - by original photos.

[Kingsking]

so whats the consensus ? how original is it ?

[overgrower]

I went to a watchmaker and had the case back removed.

Case back shows I.70
Movement is a Tudor ETA 2783.

So it seems to me that this watch has a 7021/0 case and case back.

But it has a 94110 Type B dial with the longer Tudor shield, Tudor clasp with a K1 date code, and a ETA 2783 movement which I’ve read discussed as seen on some late model 94110s.

The question is, is this worth keeping? Or return for a refund. Thanks!

[harry in montreal]

Seriously, You are not going to keep it ? You don’t see many Tudor subs selling for $5500 with an oyster band that could also net you several hundred. It’s a nice watch. PM me if you ever want to trade it!

[214270Explorer]

I'd have it cleaned/oiled, MAYBE a new crystal, and nothing else done to it.
No parts replaced otherwise.
Send to a CW21 watchmaker, NOT to a Rolex RSC. Just Sayin'

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

Seriously, You are not going to keep it ? You don’t see many Tudor subs selling for $5500 with an oyster band that could also net you several hundred. It’s a nice watch. PM me if you ever want to trade it!

What Harry said, I was on the hunt for a snowflake for over a year before making a purchase and I never found anything below 7k .Might have some swapped parts but I think at this price its still a good buy, nice beater/project watch.

[Scaramanga74]

Originally Posted by overgrower

I went to a watchmaker and had the case back removed.

Case back shows I.70
Movement is a Tudor ETA 2783.

So it seems to me that this watch has a 7021/0 case and case back.

But it has a 94110 Type B dial with the longer Tudor shield, Tudor clasp with a K1 date code, and a ETA 2783 movement which I’ve read discussed as seen on some late model 94110s.

The question is, is this worth keeping? Or return for a refund. Thanks!

If you paid 5500 I say keep it! It´s a really cool looking beater with a nice case.