How many daily rotations is too many? [Watch winder]

[Eph]

I'm building a small setup with 4 single watch winders in parallel with each other, which will be placed inside a drawer.

Background- I want to have these winders inside a dresser drawer. The drawer is 15.5" wide and 6" tall, and in looking through hundreds of possible options (singles in parallel, doubles, quad), I found literally only one option that is viable, this one, where 4 lined up are 15.45" wide.

The problem is there is no variable setting, only 1500 rotations/day. My understanding is this is no issue for modern watches, which disengage after fully wound. However, I do have a few vintage Tudor subs (1980-1990).

Is 1500 rotations/day too many for those watches?

Somewhat related to this sub, also planning on putting a Zenith El Primero Mk1 in there. Is this too many winds for this movement (same as 90s Daytonas I believe).

Bonus points, if someone can find me a higher quality winder with variable adjustment, where 4 singles, 2x duals, or 1 quad would fit in the space, I'll gift you $25 along with my sincerest gratitude!

[Dan S]

You will not damage any automatic movement made since the 1930s by turning it 1500 times per day (or any other number, for that matter). However, leaving any watch on a winder obviously results in unnecessary wear and tear.

[athom]

watch winder are so useless...only for moon phase and watches with crazy complications, not for Rolex ones...

[saxo3]

#2, #3 explain all.
Finished.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by athom

watch winder are so useless...only for moon phase and watches with crazy complications, not for Rolex ones...

No issue for the watches with screw-down crowns, but everyone who says this neglects the people who don't have nails and own watches where the crown must be pulled out. It's just easier, for chrographs too.

[Eph]

Originally Posted by Dan S

You will not damage any automatic movement made since the 1930s by turning it 1500 times per day (or any other number, for that matter). However, leaving any watch on a winder obviously results in unnecessary wear and tear.

I'm not sure I understand this. With the synthetic lubricants used today in recently serviced watches, I thought this would be no issue. Just so I'm understanding this correctly, rotor movement and winding the watch cause notably more wear and tear than a watch sitting without being used?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Eph

I'm not sure I understand this. With the synthetic lubricants used today in recently serviced watches, I thought this would be no issue. Just so I'm understanding this correctly, rotor movement and winding the watch cause notably more wear and tear than a watch sitting without being used?

Yes of course. This is the vintage watch forum, and most of us who collect vintage watches are quite familiar with wear and tear.

A watch that is running experiences friction at every bearing surface, between wheels, etc. In the winder, the rotor and reverser wheels are rotating semi-continuously. That causes wear and tear on many parts, bushings, axles, wheels, pivots, etc. Lubricants reduce wear but obviously cannot eliminate it entirely. At the time of service, parts are sometimes replaced, bushings are added, etc. A good watchmaker will carefully inspect all parts for wear and replace or repair them if possible, but it's not always easy, and some watchmakers don't really do a good job of it (they just clean and reassemble). In my experience, it's especially common to have parts replaced in the auto-winding mechanism because they lock up, wobble, or rotate inefficiently. Sometimes parts cannot easily be replaced, in which case the owner just lives with degraded performance like inefficient auto-winding or inconsistent time-keeping (e.g. positional variation).

A watch sitting unused experiences zero wear and tear.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Eph

. . .

The problem is there is no variable setting, only 1500 rotations/day. My understanding is this is no issue for modern watches, which disengage after fully wound. Is 1500 rotations/day too many for those watches?

Somewhat related to this sub, also planning on putting a Zenith El Primero Mk1 in there. Is this too many winds for this movement (same as 90s Daytonas I believe).

No, modern watches do not "disengage" after they are fully wound. The mainspring begins slipping inside the barrel in which it is wound. You cannot overwind, but you will still be scraping the bridle against the inside indents of the barrel, eventually rounding them out resulting in a mainspring that cannot be fully wound as it will prematurely slip.

Yes, oils are synthetic now days. That doesn't mean that the working parts are not wearing as they are meshing together, only that it is diminished as long as the oil is viable. The more that the oil is being used, the quicker it begins to lose it's ability to cushion the load.

Winders are intended to keep a movement at a constant state of wind, not to wind it up, and keep "overwinding" it indefinitely.

You, of course, may choose to use a winder as you deem useful for your purposes.

My view is that a stopped watch is incurring zero wear, while a running watch is incurring maximum wear.