Pricing inquiries if able

[gliazzurri]

Hi all,
Interested in buying a ROO this week. I'm not familiar with the pricing out there as much as other brands but what is realistic for the grey market on these if new models? It seems like many have them listed at about 5K+ over the MSRP. Could anyone help a new interested owner of the AP brand? I've had others out there but interested in getting on board.

[BogdanS]

Lately I’ve been on the fence myself with AP and my main source on pricing has been chrono24. Generally speaking, I think you could bring a brick&mortar grey to those prices or even better.

Good luck and see you back with an incoming thread.


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[Chadridv]

sites like chrono24 charges service fees so pricing will generally be higher than private sellers. Grey dealers making direct transactions (via bank wire) will offer more competitive pricing. Known grey dealers and trusted sellers will offer the best blend of a secure purchase and great pricing. With some patience you can find private collectors selling for the best pricing, but the risk is much higher for problems.

All that said, check out watchrecon to get a grasp on the current market value. Search by brand or by specific model to see where the market is at.

there will be a dozen other factors that make up the pricing, condition, age, warranty status, complete set, etc. IMO stick with TRF trusted sellers, ask lots of questions and pick up the watch you love. Good luck!

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Hi all,
Interested in buying a ROO this week. I'm not familiar with the pricing out there as much as other brands but what is realistic for the grey market on these if new models? It seems like many have them listed at about 5K+ over the MSRP. Could anyone help a new interested owner of the AP brand? I've had others out there but interested in getting on board.

Depending on the specific model grey prices for unworn, current production models (if that's what you mean by "new") can range from a moderate discount to a significant premium vs MSRP.

You'll probably need to provide more specifics to get useful advice (beyond the fact that prices on C24 are often on the more ambitious side, partially to make up for significant fees for the seller). If there's a boutique nearby, I would at least give that a try before going grey.

[gliazzurri]

I was looking at a ROO diver if that helps any. Typical car sales interaction of can't go lower, market pricing etc.

[DJH1977]

Do you intend to approach a boutique?

[gliazzurri]

I wouldn't mind, though have heard they are all out and one contact effectively confirmed that...maybe that is not correct, I would be happy to take info from you all as you are all more knowledgeable than I.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

I wouldn't mind, though have heard they are all out and one contact effectively confirmed that...maybe that is not correct, I would be happy to take info from you all as you are all more knowledgeable than I.

Yeah, I guess the first drop of the new diver is now probably gone. I would still ask (in person) if there's a boutique nearby. I tried all the colors a couple of months ago - very nice at MSRP, but not at the crazy prices on C24.

As these things go, $5k premium doesn't seem to be a horrible deal in this market if you want one right now, but at anything more I'd prefer the previous generation which can be had at ~MSRP of the new one. There are a few nice ones out there (and a few "excellent" ones with butchered bezels).

[gliazzurri]

Thanks guys for the extremely helpful tips. I'm not sure if the ones I'm looking at are new model generation (suspect they are)--it's the ones with black only or blue with yellow on the face. It's hard for me to believe 5K over the list price is realistic.

[DJH1977]

Worth an in person visit; don’t bother calling other than to make an appointment if you like.

The blue and yellow is discontinued per my sales associate. I would assume the resellers would be open to negotiation. Again, wouldn’t hurt to ask.

[gliazzurri]

There’s no in person around me or boutique realistically. So not really an option. Would be happy to but not feasible at present.

[jbro352]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Thanks guys for the extremely helpful tips. I'm not sure if the ones I'm looking at are new model generation (suspect they are)--it's the ones with black only or blue with yellow on the face. It's hard for me to believe 5K over the list price is realistic.

Black only or blue/yellow are the previous generation, the 15710. The new generation is 15720 (khaki green, navy/white, grey/blue so far).

From the recent experience of many on this forum, many of the C24 ads are not actually real inventory, but dealers doing lead gen… you call them and they say they “don’t have it but they can get it for you.” Good luck OP!


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[AshAP]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Thanks guys for the extremely helpful tips. I'm not sure if the ones I'm looking at are new model generation (suspect they are)--it's the ones with black only or blue with yellow on the face. It's hard for me to believe 5K over the list price is realistic.

A friend of mine has the blue dial with the yellow details, he wore this watch the other day and I’d forgotten how stunning it is. IMO it’s on par with the new blue dial. Also bear in mind that the old Divers can have the strap plots changed so that they accept the latest quick change straps.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Thanks guys for the extremely helpful tips. I'm not sure if the ones I'm looking at are new model generation (suspect they are)--it's the ones with black only or blue with yellow on the face. It's hard for me to believe 5K over the list price is realistic.

Ok, so the old diver (15710ST) with $22.3k MSRP. Indeed, $5k above MSRP seems to be the standard ask online for an unworn one. Personally, I would probably go for a good condition used one, which should come with a nominal premium above MSRP, if at all. Next to authenticity, the most important thing for me is the condition of the bezel and other brushed/polished transitions - i.e., the right in the lower picture ("very good" condition), not the left ("excellent" condition ).

[gliazzurri]

Thanks again. Any other opinions love to hear but this is very helpful.

[gliazzurri]

Is the new iteration of these (khaki/grey/blue) considered much better than the just prior models (blue/yellow etc)? I'm not sure if they will release others in different hues/colors and if waiting is better...I really like the prior options, but appears not really available in boutiques. It's just the pricing is hard to stomach--I hate ADM over MSRP situations for cars or anything else. Are these really transacting at 28000 or more? Or what is a more appropriate floor for a new/unworn one?

[DJH1977]

These will be difficult to get this year most likely. Call some AP boutiques and discuss with them for a better sense.

[Reign]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Is the new iteration of these (khaki/grey/blue) considered much better than the just prior models (blue/yellow etc)? I'm not sure if they will release others in different hues/colors and if waiting is better...I really like the prior options, but appears not really available in boutiques. It's just the pricing is hard to stomach--I hate ADM over MSRP situations for cars or anything else. Are these really transacting at 28000 or more? Or what is a more appropriate floor for a new/unworn one?

The new divers are nice (APs latest and greatest movement) but the secondary pricing is ridiculous. A rising tide lifts all boats and if things correct, these will be among the first to fall.

I’d wait, see if there are new iterations you like and in the meantime, inquire with a boutique since these are considered entry level models to the brand. It feels doable within 12 months based on discussions with SAs on the general state of affairs

I would add any of the current 42mm ROOs to this grouping as well in terms of “entry level” pieces to the brand.

44s (rumored to be discontinued) and 43s will be possible to get from a boutique as a first piece but generally a bit more difficult than the 42s and Divers.

Hope this is helpful

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by Reign

The new divers are nice (APs latest and greatest movement) but the secondary pricing is ridiculous. A rising tide lifts all boats and if things correct, these will be among the first to fall.

I’d wait, see if there are new iterations you like and in the meantime, inquire with a boutique since these are considered entry level models to the brand. It feels doable within 12 months based on discussions with SAs on the general state of affairs

I would add any of the current 42mm ROOs to this grouping as well in terms of “entry level” pieces to the brand.

44s (rumored to be discontinued) and 43s will be possible to get from a boutique as a first piece but generally a bit more difficult than the 42s and Divers.

Hope this is helpful

Thank you so much! You guys are extremely helpful. I really appreciate your insight. I’d really like to buy and am just troubled one is unable to buy a basic model without this nonsense.

[macrowatch]

I would really, really recommend some patience. I do not think the ROO 43 will be difficult to acquire in the medium term, but obviously new models will always be temporarily in demand. Kind of like the 41mm sub date going to VVIP's, but then any VVIP who wanted one would have already gotten one last year and now it's moving pretty easily to non VIP's.

The only reason to buy now is if you really want 44 for the size.

Finally, as a market pricing observation, I think the grays handle AP very differently than Rolex. They want a much wider spread, it moves slower, but they also know when the right fish comes (you) they will be able to make that margin. If you see the 5k premium on chrono, that's probably to reflect the surcharge.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Is the new iteration of these (khaki/grey/blue) considered much better than the just prior models (blue/yellow etc)? I'm not sure if they will release others in different hues/colors and if waiting is better...I really like the prior options, but appears not really available in boutiques. It's just the pricing is hard to stomach--I hate ADM over MSRP situations for cars or anything else. Are these really transacting at 28000 or more? Or what is a more appropriate floor for a new/unworn one?

The one thing I like unequivocally better on the new one (15720) compared to the old (15710) are the ceramic crowns (instead of rubber clad). Quick change strap can be added and the dial/furniture is a matter of taste. No strong opinion about the different movements.

[gliazzurri]

Thanks again for all the great tips!
One more quick question if you could provide some insight...I have been told from a few people that some or all of the warranty originally punched for one of these grey market watches will be affected if I reregister it under my name. Can you all explain what the details of this may be to be sure? Is the factory warranty only applicable to the original owner?? I can't believe that is true--or is it just this extra 2 year additional that can be extended that is voided? Just want to be sure I understand what are the ramifications of either direction.

[whiterabbit66]

Originally Posted by DJH1977

These will be difficult to get this year most likely. Call some AP boutiques and discuss with them for a better sense.

Agreed. Go and call and then visit a boutique. They want to sell you a watch but want to know you are a real person and not a flipper. The reason it is so hard right now is flippers constantly calling and emailing and getting friends to pretend they are real buyers. Boutiques assume 99% of remote new buyers are flippers/greys.

FWIW I have managed to order a new sub not a problem from boutique. All I had to do was walk in wearing my two year old RO that I bought new. Once I did that they were very happy to put me down for a new one.

It's much harder without a local AD/Boutique and thats want grays are counting on.

[gliazzurri]

Really a pity as I would wager that the majority of the population is not anywhere near a boutique and I don’t have the luxury to travel to one easily. Certainly not planning to drive 4 to five or more hours just to go. Have tried calling to try to make genuine connections but if they behave paranoid like that and don’t attempt to understand a legitimate buyer like myself that is a bit of a turn off and reminds me of when I was younger and tried to get test drives of Porsches only to later end up buying serially and moving on to other higher end brands. Don’t underestimate the customer who calls is my assessment.

[whiterabbit66]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Really a pity as I would wager that the majority of the population is not anywhere near a boutique and I don’t have the luxury to travel to one easily. Certainly not planning to drive 4 to five or more hours just to go. Have tried calling to try to make genuine connections but if they behave paranoid like that and don’t attempt to understand a legitimate buyer like myself that is a bit of a turn off and reminds me of when I was younger and tried to get test drives of Porsches only to later end up buying serially and moving on to other higher end brands. Don’t underestimate the customer who calls is my assessment.

Problem is grays and flippers are literally non stop doing this. One gray has/had a team of people on commission literally non stop dialing. These people are professionals about telling stories of how they are treating their dying husband to his first AP etc to get a prized piece. Its extremely hard/impossible for a boutique to know if you are legit unless you have prior history or a friend who carries weight who does. Not being funny but its not a big deal to drive 5 hours to a boutique. When I first got into this game I had to go to Miami from Atlanta and still do for many brands. Brands these days want to sell to local legit buyers and build relationships imho its worth it. If you only want one AP maybe easier for you to pay to go gray. I just hate to see grays win at this game as their tactics are causing boutiques to act this way.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by whiterabbit66

Problem is grays and flippers are literally non stop doing this. One gray has/had a team of people on commission literally non stop dialing. These people are professionals about telling stories of how they are treating their dying husband to his first AP etc to get a prized piece. Its extremely hard/impossible for a boutique to know if you are legit unless you have prior history or a friend who carries weight who does. Not being funny but its not a big deal to drive 5 hours to a boutique. When I first got into this game I had to go to Miami from Atlanta and still do for many brands. Brands these days want to sell to local legit buyers and build relationships imho its worth it. If you only want one AP maybe easier for you to pay to go gray. I just hate to see grays win at this game as their tactics are causing boutiques to act this way.

I hear you friend but I’ve talked with a Lange dealer about this about 8 months ago and I think the idea of selling to local buyers preferentially or mostly is an unreasonable objective when there are so few options around even as with AP. I don’t disagree with you but I would find it hard for them to consider me local if I drove 4 or 5 hours to NYC or 12 hours to ATL. If I were in Germany and could take a train efficiently for 1-2 hours max to get to an AD then that’s very different than in the US. Just frustrating to me as I have bought plenty of cars well out of state from branded authorized dealers and have never had a big issue with it at least when they know I’m serious. I appreciate the insight you provided and thanks again for helping a new interested buyer to this brand.