Panerai In-House Movements - He's back

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

It appears that Cru Jones just did.

Cheers

Why are you so worked up about this?

[karteo]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

“Mr. Congressman, do you still beat your wife?”



Surely you can see that this type of question is a trap. Any answer is the wrong answer. Not responding is the only answer.

"I have never done so and your comment deserves a lawsuit where you will either prove this or you'll buy me the whole panerai catalogue with in house cal watches" :) :)

Don't get me wrong. I like panerais (sic) and had several up to now and still have one. My point is that this is a serious matter and should be addressed properly no matter if the claims were made by perezcope, mahatma ghandi or Adolf Hitler.

Swiss watch industry targeting our pockets should not walk into this kind of paths because we will end up to more doing this in the future to increase prices.

Furthermore I like watches not companies. I am not a fan boy of any company, rolex or whatever.

Sent from my M2007J17G using Tapatalk

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Why are you so worked up about this?

Trust me, I am perfectly calm. The man threw down a challenge, the challenge was answered.

Namaste.

[rootbeer7]

Jose doesn't need me defending him, but for that money, I'd expect honesty at the very least so that I can make an informed purchase.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Hes an internet "journalist" traffic to his website pays the bills
I've seen the original article shared everywhere the last couple of weeks, not to mention hearing it talked about on podcasts and other media

I imagine his "pay per click" revenue went up quite a bit thanks to his original article and now he's flogging the dead horse in the hope to squeeze a few more dollars from this storm in a tea cup

Most Panerai people dont care
Most Non Watch People dont know what the fuss is about
Most Watch People who do seem to care, dont own a PAM and were never going to anyway, so no loss there

So what his site gets clicks. At least it isn’t “click bait”, he actually talks some good factual points. And I do agree he’s actually providing more info than most of these other bought resources, Hodinkee or Revolution for example, they work off of clicks and traffic as well.
Everything works of clicks and traffic, I’m happy the op posted a link, that’s what we’re here for, information. Whether it’s good or bad, you decide, whether it’s fake, well show and prove what he’s saying is a lie. That would help a lot to show he’s just a blasphemous troll, which he is not.

Vendetta or the way he says what he says may rub some fan boys wrong, but is he a liar? Plain making stuff up?
Ps: I love Panerai by the way.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

It appears that Cru Jones just did.

Cheers

Cru did make some great points I must admit but it doesn’t prove Jose is lying or incorrect. Journalism sometimes requires that we research, inquire, surmise, and report findings based on available data. I don’t think 100% news is 100% factual. The inquiry and reporting can inform, alarm and raise the issue up for clarification.

Happens in news all the time, ie reporting on a plane crash, we now have information that a plane has crashed in blah blah and there has been some data that shows that this airline has failed inspections on several occasions. We’ll have more at 11pm.
People get interested, people dig up details, the airline responds, inspectors respond, etc. The story develops, and facts are revealed.

This type of pressure on Panerai’s marketing claims can push us to inquire and seek clarification. I can bet Panerai will never respond but as a watch community we can jump on board and confirm or deny what ever claims or information is being put forth by either Panerai or journalists.

Rolex has made a fafillion claims about its inventions and firsts. Many debunked but none by Rolex in a formal open setting. They still push these legacy and heritage “firsts” to this day, but most of us know better. Doesn’t change the fact Rolex and Hans Wilsdorf are my favorite watch company and founder, but I feel better just knowing the real real facts and the context in which Rolex speaks and why.

I just bought some dang Panerai books for almost $500 bucks, but don’t have me walking around like an idiot, “for example” saying my Pam 1305 has an in house movement then some watchmaker is like, well pump your brakes there, it’s actually a reworked ETA or Sellita base and Panerai just did xyz, I’d feel like a turd. I don’t mind paying for luxury and just a name, but will happily do so only being informed as such. Not paying $600 for an LV leather wallet only to discover it’s synthetic and not made in France, deal breaker.

[brandrea]

Interesting thread.

Does anyone know if the P3000 movement is an “in-house” movement made by Panerai?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interesting thread.

Does anyone know if the P3000 movement is an “in-house” movement made by Panerai?

According to Richemont's Panerai brand website:

TECHNICAL DETAILS
Hand-wound mechanical, P.3000 calibre, executed entirely by Panerai, 16½ lignes, 5.3 mm thick, 21 jewels, Glucydur® balance, 21,600 alternations/hour. Incabloc® anti-shock device. Power reserve 3 days, two barrels. 160 components.

https://www.panerai.com/us/en/know-h...ts/p-3000.html

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

According to Richemont's Panerai brand website:

TECHNICAL DETAILS
Hand-wound mechanical, P.3000 calibre, executed entirely by Panerai, 16½ lignes, 5.3 mm thick, 21 jewels, Glucydur® balance, 21,600 alternations/hour. Incabloc® anti-shock device. Power reserve 3 days, two barrels. 160 components.

https://www.panerai.com/us/en/know-h...ts/p-3000.html

[mobster600]

The attack is directed toward Richmont-Panerai as a conglomerate and at its decisions made on marketing Panerai. The brand is owned and effectively under control by any decisions made at Richemont. Panerai is a brand of conglomerate. It's purity is what comes down from Richemont. I think there is some explaining to do by Panerai itself on what exactly their movements are. I think the attack is to the CEO of Panerai and if Richemont.

A question I have to the CEO of Panerai is simple, - what objectives are you trying to achieve? That's all I want to hear. Either it's brand purity or Richemont monetization.

These guys make bonus's based on profits. I think cost cutting was at mind here rather then increasing sales. We all know Panerai sales have been declining for years. Let's play devils advocate, can you blame them? Would you rather have a Panerai with an non-inhouse movement OR sale of the brand to venture capital firm?

[dchang81]

not condoning the behavior but hasn't this crap been going on since forever? Odd that only certain brands get called out for it. so many "in house" movements seem to be clones of each other anyways. my only problem is this guy does these posts every year or so and it reads as oddly personal, like he has a vendetta.

another forum had a post about akrivia not being transparent in what is actually in house, but that brand is an internet darling that cannot be touched so the poster got attacked. i love a lot of the independents but many do not disclose their use of ETA base movements. i personally don't care since i'd rather have a reliable watch that can be serviced by anyone down the road but that's just me.

is anyone really that surprised a richemont brand is doing this? i mean people's memories seem to get fuzzy, i just point to the QC control thread on Patek. i've been registered on here for 7 years and a lurker for longer but oddly no one seems to remember the issues that many posters had only a few years ago.

[enjoythemusic]

I also don't mind it being ETA, Sellita, etc. Simply be honest with your customers so they have information about what they are considering purchasing. Be honest and transparent with members of the press when asked about.......

As for pricing and value, that's for you to decide.

This is why Bell&Ross once again popped up on my radar. Love my BR03-92 first release with ETA movement. Priced right for the movement and overall package imho. Their bronzo is ~$5000.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

I also don't mind it being ETA, Sellita, etc. Simply be honest with your customers so they have information about what they are considering purchasing. Be honest and transparent with members of the press when asked about.......

As for pricing and value, that's for you to decide.

This is why Bell&Ross once again popped up on my radar. Love my BR03-92 first release with ETA movement. Priced right for the movement and overall package imho. Their bronzo is ~$5000.

Nicely put

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by pereztroika

Instead of spewing nonsensical conspiracy theories and personal attacks, why don't you astute gentlemen try to debunk my work?

Cheers
Jose

I own and love certain Panerai watches. However, I agree with your article and the senseless bludgeoning that the richemont group has done to what was a less exotic ‘but true’ Panerai story that was at least based upon reality. Their callous fabrication of facts and downright lies have left true Panerai aficionados feeling embarrassed. You’ve done some great investigative work Jose and I for one appreciate your candid and accurate articles. I do however lean towards some of the other posters views, in so much as today’s watch buying public are generally ill informed or simply unconcerned about brand legacy and history. Only the higher echelon brands hold true standards of brand representation, but Panerai lost the plot exactly when they created the illusion of grandeur by fabricating history. But lets be honest, a very high percentage of today’s watch buying public buy a particular brand because some guy on instagram with a gazillion followers was seen with one on his wrist. It’s just the way it is and I think that the guys at Panerai know this and sit around laughing at those who expose their fabricated legacy or their overall cop-out models…did I say DUE?

My two favorite Panerai watches (127 and 111) have (admittedly beautifully adorned) ETA movements. In fact I prefer those earlier models from a time just before Panerai marketing destroyed the brands meager but true legacy.

I bought the 687 because apart from appealing to me aesthetically, the model from which it was derived was from an era when Panerai created the bezel assembly and case back (not sure about the crown and case which I think was Rolex), plus the radium staining of the original versions dial actually did happen. As for the 671 Bronzo, it has no real historical legacy at all, but I simply appreciate the design cohesion.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

... just hearsay.
... just hearsay.
... just hearsay.
... just hearsay.
... just hearsay.

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by pereztroika

Instead of spewing nonsensical conspiracy theories and personal attacks, why don't you astute gentlemen try to debunk my work?

Cheers
Jose

I appreciate you shedding light on this kind of stuff.

[Chewbacca]

The Panerai CEO would be gone yesterday at any other company, but Richemont does also seem like it has a transparency, cultural and values deficiency.