Am I missing anything?

[Dreamin]

Hi everyone,

Think I’ve finally found it. Many thanks to all in the vintage thread. How does this sub look?

All appears original to me and is stated as such by seller.

And biggest question of all, what is a fair offer price? Thanks!!

[Dan S]

Price depends on who is selling. Looks like a dealer photo, so speculating on a "fair offer" is pointless. You probably won't be able to get a huge discount off their asking price.

[Dreamin]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Price depends on who is selling. Looks like a dealer photo, so speculating on a "fair offer" is pointless. You probably won't be able to get a huge discount off their asking price.

Makes sense, just curious what is fair in current environment and hope that the watch is original as stated. Doesn’t appear to be a service dial or hands

[watchlovr]

Also.
Watch only or full set?
More photos.
It all matters

[swish77]

Definitely need more and better photos. These bleached-out photos, so common among dealers for some bizarre reason, are not good for assessing condition.

One thing I'll say about that one photo .... the lugs looks over-polished, especially top right, but the crown guards look untouched, which is unusual and not a great sign.

[Dreamin]

Originally Posted by swish77

Definitely need more and better photos. These bleached-out photos, so common among dealers for some bizarre reason, are not good for assessing condition.

One thing I'll say about that one photo .... the lugs looks over-polished, especially top right, but the crown guards look untouched, which is unusual and not a great sign.

This is great feedback, I haven’t learned about analyzing lug evenness to assess polish wear. Here’s a few more shots

[Dan S]

You will want to determine if that speckling is actual damage to the dial, or just from the crystal.

[16610Swiss]

Originally Posted by Dan S

You will want to determine if that speckling is actual damage to the dial, or just from the crystal.

It is def on the dial

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 16610Swiss

It is def on the dial

I think so too. Just trying to be open-minded in the absence of great photos.

And to Aaron's point, it's interesting to see how the original photo completely washes out those details.

[Dreamin]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think so too. Just trying to be open-minded in the absence of great photos.

And to Aaron's point, it's interesting to see how the original photo completely washes out those details.

What’s the general consensus on the dial speckling? I always see this labeled as ‘patina’ and the thinking is its desirable

I really like the fact that is has the original dial and hands- and its from my birth year.

My goal wasnt to necessarily find a NOS pristine Sub.. I like the patina and ‘vintage’ look for sure. Long as no one is seeing any glaring concerns!

[16610Swiss]

Price? Looks to be reference 16800 or 168000.. This is normal for this reference number since they had defective lacquer in that era... full set or just watch? We can't help if you don't answer people's questions

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

What’s the general consensus on the dial speckling? I always see this labeled as ‘patina’ and the thinking is its desirable

You must be reading dealer listings. The yellow lume is patina. Spotting on the dial ... not so much. It's damage to the lacquer and not desirable IMO. Not a deal-breaker if you like the watch, but any damage to the dial has an impact. Of course minor damage has a minor impact.

[Dreamin]

Originally Posted by 16610Swiss

Price? Looks to be reference 16800 or 168000.. This is normal for this reference number since they had defective lacquer in that era... full set or just watch? We can't help if you don't answer people's questions

Watch and original box current asking is 12k, which seems high based on my current findings on the market

[zapokee]

Sharp chamfers and brushing suggest it's been detailed recently. Not a problem for me, but some prefer all-original.

Not a big fan of that dial speckling, though, and that first misleading photo from the dealer is a red flag in my book.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

Watch and original box current asking is 12k, which seems high based on my current findings on the market

Definitely high.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

I really like the fact that is has the original dial and hands- and its from my birth year.

The asking price is way too high for this example and with a dial that has issues, IMHO. And having its original dial and hands ain't that rare for this reference/era. They're out there with better dials if you're patient.

I wouldn't let the fact that it's a birth-year watch possibly cloud judgment, as tempting as it might be. Either way, good luck!

[Dreamin]

Originally Posted by swish77

The asking price is way too high for this example and with a dial that has issues, IMHO. And having its original dial and hands ain't that rare for this reference/era. They're out therewith better dials if you're patient.

I wouldn't let the fact that it's a birth-year watch possibly cloud judgment, as tempting as it might be. Either way, good luck!

Probably what I would need to hear honestly.. I’m fascinated that the dial ‘defects’/specks are a less than desirable ‘patina’ feature. It’s been difficult finding my birth year and this was the first example I deemed ‘worthy’. It’s been months of searching!

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

Probably what I would need to hear honestly.. I’m fascinated that the dial ‘defects’/specks are a less than desirable ‘patina’ feature. It’s been difficult finding my birth year and this was the first example I deemed ‘worthy’. It’s been months of searching!

Can I suggest you stay patient on your quest.

The 16800 / 168000 is not really a rare model so they do come up.

As others have said, the speckle on the dial is net negative and it tends to get worse, aka more speckle and eventual fading and discolouration. I have yet to see someone consider that a plus but i'm sure someone would have said the same thing about tropical dials once upon a time!

As I said earlier, $12K is high - have you checked sold items on ebay for this reference? I suspect you will find a more comparable price.

[watchlovr]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

Watch and original box current asking is 12k, which seems high based on my current findings on the market

12k what?
A currency would help.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dreamin

I’m fascinated that the dial ‘defects’/specks are a less than desirable ‘patina’ feature.

Look, we are just telling you how such lacquer damage affects general desirability in the vintage market, not whether you should like the watch or not. The world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing, and the watch is for you, not us. So if you find the dial appealing, buy the watch. Seriously, that's really the best reason to buy a watch. I've certainly bought watches because they appealed to me personally, even though I knew that they didn't necessarily meet the typical standards of collectibility.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by watchlovr

12k what?
A currency would help.

The OP is in North Carolina, so presumably U.S. dollars.