Syloxi Vs. Parachrom Blue. Real World Data?

[Momentumwheel]

Has anyone managed to perform a timing comparison between movements using Syloxi and Parachrom Blue Hairsprings (Eg. 2236 vs. 31xx or 32xx series)? Do Syloxi Hairsprings really provide superior time keeping performance over Parachrom Blue or is the perceived difference merely due to regulation?
Is anyone willing to share their data or experience?

Due to the amagnetic properties of silicon, I can envision Rolex using Syloxi on a next generation Milgauss movement to compete head-to-head with Omega and their METAS movements (as well as other manufacturers). I’m sure I’m not the only person to suspect this. Whether this actually happens is purely up to speculation at this point but it may explain why Rolex has not adopted Syloxi across its entire product line providing it is truly superior to parachrom.

[Momentumwheel]

Any updates? Is anyone able to provide data or speak about their experience with both hairspring types?

[Rashid.bk]

This is all marketing in my opinion. The parachrom blue movements at this point which Rolex has secretly not so secretly updated and with the intro of the newer class movements Rolex has increased amagnetism in their watches to the level or beyond the 1000 guass the Milguass provides.
Rolex doesn’t market this because it would make the Milguass irrelevant and useless since they still to this date market and talk about the Milguass and how it’s constructed and blahblahblah, but the faraday cage is way outdated. Rolex is not going to enter into the amagnetism war with Omega, it will lose horribly considering just how much of Omegas catalog is virtually amagnetic to a whopping 15000 gauss and beyond all the while using thinner designs not requiring a faraday cage and even using clear crystal case backs.

As for performance vs Rolex’s two hair springs. I seriously doubt we’ll see the syloxi spread to other references, well because for one they just upgraded their most in use movement(32xx) and maintained the parachrom blue. However, it’s not to say in another 10-20 years Rolex could switch to a Syloxi variant like they did at the end of the 31xx series movements.

As far as amagnetism is concerned, it doesn’t seem to be Rolex’s focus with their hair springs. It’s not enough of a factor in the public marketing arena nor do I think they want to convince people of its importance, one- they are already winning as is, and two- they have secretly gave us amagnetic watches in the 32xx and 22xx movements without telling us exactly how much, but base on their description in literature is seems plausible it’s more than 1000 gauss, which is the Milguass’ marketed limit. It would be irony and make the Milguass a ridiculously obsolete reference.

Lastly, I remember reading something stating the syloxi which I believe is a smaller hair spring is specifically designed for the smaller references or something to that extent.
From a manufacturing pov, Rolex has spent a huge sums of money for R&D of the parachrom blue and every year Rolex gets more secretive or less specific about its watches. When you really look at it, they are spending more on image than technical expertise(but by no means does this mean they aren’t vested in technical engineering and innovation, they just aren’t sharing it with “us” like Omega is).

As for accuracy, Rolex solidly sticks to their +/-2 across the board on their entire catalog as well as at least 100m of water resistance, a standard they even bet the older 31xx could manage. Which that’s when Peter chimes in regarding “ a watch is only as good as it is regulated”. Rolex invest heavily in technical engineering and materials, unfortunately they have been a bit silent on letting us know exactly how cool it is.
The net effect regardless is todays climate for Rolex watches. I think inherently, Rolex is right there with Omega or a fraction behind but the net result would seem Rolex is getting the service and durability longevity it desires of its products for the customer. Reflecting on how long I’ve been on this forum, their is very little talk of watches becoming magnetized and can’t say I’ve heard of even one of the 32xx series movements, not even a discussion over at Omega. Last time I had a watch magnetized was in the mid 2000s, an Omega PO. Have owned close to a dozen watches since then, mostly Rolex and used in similar environments as my old PO, none have been magnetized. So I think regardless of marketing, in general, the new recipe is working. Sorry I can’t add anything groundbreaking, just wanted to bump the discussion and see if we gain traction with this issue as I’m a bit interested as well.

Would be nice if a tech/watchmaker(Bas) could chime in.

[Momentumwheel]

Thank you for your response; I was not aware Rolex may have improved the magnetic resistance of its latest generation movements beyond the 1,000 Gauss rating of the Milgauss. Although this does not pertain to the overall difference in precision between Syloxi and Parachom movements, it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with a time grapher. A cased or uncased 32xx series movement could be tested against a Milgauss using magnets with known field strength. I have seen a similar comparison performed between the Milgauss and Omega Metas movements but not Rolex 32xx series movements.

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

As far as amagnetism is concerned, it doesn’t seem to be Rolex’s focus with their hair springs. It’s not enough of a factor in the public marketing arena nor do I think they want to convince people of its importance, one- they are already winning as is, and two- they have secretly gave us amagnetic watches in the 32xx and 22xx movements without telling us exactly how much, but base on their description in literature is seems plausible it’s more than 1000 gauss, which is the Milguass’ marketed limit. It would be irony and make the Milguass a ridiculously obsolete reference.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

This is all marketing in my opinion. The parachrom blue movements at this point which Rolex has secretly not so secretly updated and with the intro of the newer class movements Rolex has increased amagnetism in their watches to the level or beyond the 1000 guass the Milguass provides.
Rolex doesn’t market this because it would make the Milguass irrelevant and useless since they still to this date market and talk about the Milguass and how it’s constructed and blahblahblah, but the faraday cage is way outdated. Rolex is not going to enter into the amagnetism war with Omega, it will lose horribly considering just how much of Omegas catalog is virtually amagnetic to a whopping 15000 gauss and beyond all the while using thinner designs not requiring a faraday cage and even using clear crystal case backs.

As for performance vs Rolex’s two hair springs. I seriously doubt we’ll see the syloxi spread to other references, well because for one they just upgraded their most in use movement(32xx) and maintained the parachrom blue. However, it’s not to say in another 10-20 years Rolex could switch to a Syloxi variant like they did at the end of the 31xx series movements.

As far as amagnetism is concerned, it doesn’t seem to be Rolex’s focus with their hair springs. It’s not enough of a factor in the public marketing arena nor do I think they want to convince people of its importance, one- they are already winning as is, and two- they have secretly gave us amagnetic watches in the 32xx and 22xx movements without telling us exactly how much, but base on their description in literature is seems plausible it’s more than 1000 gauss, which is the Milguass’ marketed limit. It would be irony and make the Milguass a ridiculously obsolete reference.

Lastly, I remember reading something stating the syloxi which I believe is a smaller hair spring is specifically designed for the smaller references or something to that extent.
From a manufacturing pov, Rolex has spent a huge sums of money for R&D of the parachrom blue and every year Rolex gets more secretive or less specific about its watches. When you really look at it, they are spending more on image than technical expertise(but by no means does this mean they aren’t vested in technical engineering and innovation, they just aren’t sharing it with “us” like Omega is).

As for accuracy, Rolex solidly sticks to their +/-2 across the board on their entire catalog as well as at least 100m of water resistance, a standard they even bet the older 31xx could manage. Which that’s when Peter chimes in regarding “ a watch is only as good as it is regulated”. Rolex invest heavily in technical engineering and materials, unfortunately they have been a bit silent on letting us know exactly how cool it is.
The net effect regardless is todays climate for Rolex watches. I think inherently, Rolex is right there with Omega or a fraction behind but the net result would seem Rolex is getting the service and durability longevity it desires of its products for the customer. Reflecting on how long I’ve been on this forum, their is very little talk of watches becoming magnetized and can’t say I’ve heard of even one of the 32xx series movements, not even a discussion over at Omega. Last time I had a watch magnetized was in the mid 2000s, an Omega PO. Have owned close to a dozen watches since then, mostly Rolex and used in similar environments as my old PO, none have been magnetized. So I think regardless of marketing, in general, the new recipe is working. Sorry I can’t add anything groundbreaking, just wanted to bump the discussion and see if we gain traction with this issue as I’m a bit interested as well.

Would be nice if a tech/watchmaker(Bas) could chime in.

You focus heavily on anti-magnetic properties.
I wonder if the OP is more interested in accuracy

Let's all keep in mind that Rolex was part of the consortium that developed the Silicon Hairspring technology in the very first instance. So I imagine they are well versed in the technology with it's anti-magetic properties and it's potential pitfalls. But Rolex have chosen to go with their Parachrome offering, which as you state was not originally blue as it was presented in the early 4030 movements.

Silicon hairsprings typically differ from Parachrome variants(and others), in that Silicon hairsprings are flat wound(as far as I know) whilst metal Hairsprings like Parachrome, Nivarox and Spron can be made with an important design element which is called a Breguet Overcoil.

Perhaps Rolex is simply dipping it's toe in the water with Silicon hairsprings and applying it only where necessary. It's natural they would be talking up their Parachrome blue but it's not like they're burying the fact they use Syloxi where applicable.
It's well known to anybody who goes on the Rolex website and looks around at the specs of the movement contained within pieces of interest.

Rolex are having a foot in both camps.

In terms of accuracy, both technologies have the same Superlative Chronometer standard apply. Anything else is splitting hairs with numbers so low in a mechanical movement.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Momentumwheel

Thank you for your response; I was not aware Rolex may have improved the magnetic resistance of its latest generation movements beyond the 1,000 Gauss rating of the Milgauss. Although this does not pertain to the overall difference in precision between Syloxi and Parachom movements, it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with a time grapher. A cased or uncased 32xx series movement could be tested against a Milgauss using magnets with known field strength. I have seen a similar comparison performed between the Milgauss and Omega Metas movements but not Rolex 32xx series movements.

What were the results of the study?
Are you able to post a link?

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Silicon hairsprings typically differ from Parachrome variants(and others), in that Silicon hairsprings are flat wound(as far as I know) whilst metal Hairsprings like Parachrome, Nivarox and Spron can be made with an important design element which is called a Breguet Overcoil.

Great post. But just so you know. Here’s the Silicone hair spring jointly developed by Rolex, Patek Phillipe and Swatch that you mentioned. Note that it features a Breguet Overcoil.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Great post. But just so you know. Here’s the Silicone hair spring jointly developed by Rolex, Patek Phillipe and Swatch that you mentioned. Note that it features a Breguet Overcoil.

Ah ha.
Thankyou so very much for the clarification
Does the design work?
Is it the same design as the Omega offerings?

Perhaps you may know more, but I have heard that one of the well known manufacturers has suggested that the Silicon hairsprings may not last as long in service as a metal hairspring?
I know it's a moving target and it's probably hard to do extensive durabilty testing but food for thought

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Ah ha.
Thankyou so very much for the clarification
Does the design work?
Is it the same design as the Omega offerings?

Perhaps you may know more, but I have heard that one of the well known manufacturers has suggested that the Silicon hairsprings may not last as long in service as a metal hairspring?
I know it's a moving target and it's probably hard to do extensive durabilty testing but food for thought

Haha. I doubt I know more than you. Especially since all these watch houses keep their designs closely guarded. Not sure why

To answer your question. Many primary sources indicate that composite hair springs are intended to be replaceable rather than serviced. So I would agree that their service life is significantly inferior to parachrom Blu and Nivarox

Inspection of silicon Omega hair springs clearly indicate they are flat rolled in design like you mention and do not use the Breguet overcoil design. It is the same with the Tudor Silicone hair springs used in their MT in house calibers.

I suspect that the need for Breguet overcoil for consistency is less significant if the composite used for the hairspring has the inherent consistency already. This is just speculation on my part.

To be honest, I have a feeling the continued use of parachrom blu in newer generation Rolex movements has more to do with trademarking rather than accuracy. I am sure Rolex is getting a lot of shared data from Tudor’s use of silicone hair springs and have decided that there is no need to change things.

I like the use parachrom blu anyway. Makes it kinda unique.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Haha. I doubt I know more than you. Especially since all these watch houses keep their designs closely guarded. Not sure why

However, inspection of silicon Omega hair springs clearly indicate they are flat rolled in design like you mention and do not use the Breguet overcoil design. It is the same with the Tudor Silicone hair springs used in their MT in house calibers.

I suspect that the need for Breguet overcoil for consistency is less significant if the composite used for the hairspring has the inherent consistency already. This is just speculation on my part.

Speculating.
Perhaps the overcoil is indeed a redundant feature.
Or possibly difficult to make it work.

Plus an overcoil would make packaging unecessarily harder than is needed, thus a flat one is preferable.

There must be a reason why Rolex and Omega haven't gone the whole hog yet. It might be a case where they're keeping that one up their sleeves for the next round if it's not actually a technical challenge when working with the material.
Maybe a Breguet overcoil doesn't work as well as a different design with Silicon

Let's remember, Hairsprings were all flat until Mr Breguet got really tricky.
I also wonder if they can fine tune the shape of Silicon if the spring is not breathing just right

Quite frankly the whole Silicon thing sort of blows my mind, which is still stuck on the idea of using metal for springs of any kind. Lol.

[Dirt]

Actually come to think of it.
The GS overcoil is apparently not a normal design when paired with their new escapement.
So there's entirely new science coming into play in itself when we throw escapement designs into the mix.

[Momentumwheel]

Originally Posted by Dirt

What were the results of the study?
Are you able to post a link?

Several years ago, someone posted a Youtube video demonstrating the affects of a Milgauss and Aqua Terra (15,000 Gauss) exposed to a neodymium magnet. The Milgauss stopped entirely while the Aqua Terra seemed to run without issue.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=elq8p8ZVCUk