AP15202 vs Czapek Antarctique

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by DonLee

the lugs leading into the first bracelet link... looks so off. i don't think i can live with that. The watchbox was right. get the stainless steel, but change the bracelet into the rubber flex

Too bad it's no longer possible to do that. :(

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by EdwardC

To general public this is not a debatable question. To most watch enthusiasts it would be the same. It's so personal so I respect some of the comments especially ones like beshannon. But almost 30% here voted for Czapek is just not real and can't represent the community.

Thanks, however I disagree. Holding at 30% is a real eye opener. Some watch lovers are looking beyond the status quo.

Originally Posted by DadFuelBBQ

I like the looks of the Czapek lineup, but it seems that the obsession for their pieces is coming on pretty hot and heavy. Could be fantastic and well deserved but it’s hard to take the plunge without seeing one in person. In no way does it hold a candle to the AP in this thread. It almost makes me think this is a marketing ploy. Again, I like the looks of it, but things are getting irrationally exuberant.

Again, I disagree. 30% is very respectable and personally I am thrilled to have my order in and will be able to own something that I am excited about owning. Too often today people are excited about money. And that is what is ruining this hobby for me.

Czapek is the first watch in a long time that truly has me excited again for the story, the quality and the passion for watches and watchmaking

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Too often today people are excited about money. And that is what is ruining this hobby for me.

This right there.

I feel exactly the same.

Watches are treated as investments of the likes of crypto or NFTs, and quite honestly, it all feels like a pyramid scheme now. The only reason why a watch is $50,000 today, and $75,000 in 2 weeks, and $100,000 in 6 weeks, is because enough people feel like it'll keep going up and never ever go down.

[GB-man]

I think one of the reasons for czapeks success (outside of a pretty darn good execution and a positively radiant ceo) is their transparent and painless ordering system.

In this market it’s virtually unheard of for customers to be able to complete a transaction without talking to anyone on the phone in 5 minutes and to know exactly what they are getting and when.

Compare this to having to physically fly out to a bootique (sp mistake I chose to leave because it’s funny) and beg some salesperson and you can see the clear appeal.

This is even more refreshing than the watch itself to me. Although I have not ordered one.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I think one of the reasons for czapeks success (outside of a pretty darn good execution and a positively radiant ceo) is their transparent and painless ordering system.

In this market it’s virtually unheard of for customers to be able to complete a transaction without talking to anyone on the phone in 5 minutes and to know exactly what they are getting and when.

Compare this to having to physically fly out to a bootique (sp mistake I chose to leave because it’s funny) and beg some salesperson and you can see the clear appeal.

This is even more refreshing than the watch itself to me. Although I have not ordered one.

I completely agree and wish this were possible with other manufacturers.

Although I understand why Gronefeld stopped taking orders, I would have been very happy to order a Remontoire this way.

With Czapek, I was able to view, configure and order. Simple and seamless, I received my order confirmation email within 24 hours.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Nicof

I’ve said it before on another thread. The two shouldn’t even be compared. The Czapek just isn’t in the same league.

Agreed in that the AP is a very dated, old piece with typical single-dimension thinking. Czapek is a refreshing new take, that does hark back to a bit of history as well, with far more emotion-enhancing multi-dimensional appeal.

i've done 'silly stuff' like this in the past... What someone should do is be on the street and have both AP and Czapek. Then ask passers-by:

1. Which one they feel is more appealing.

2. Which one is of higher quality.

3. Which one is / has (insert other questions here).

i truly love 'boots-on-the-ground' research.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ilovegt

looks pretty integrated to me. Attachment 1275414

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Take another look. The lugs are standard straight lugs you'd find on any other watch. The only hint of integration is that the second set of links on the bracelet flairs out to meet the outer part of the lug before tapering to the clasp. I mean, looking at it, there is a visible gap between the end link and the lug (look on the left side of the picture you posted above, you can see right through it). There is also a noticeable groove where the end link meets the case, which clearly distinguishes case from bracelet. So no, I would not call that pretty integrated at all. It's a watch with a flared-out bracelet.

Originally Posted by DonLee

the lugs leading into the first bracelet link... looks so off. i don't think i can live with that. The watchbox was right. get the stainless steel, but change the bracelet into the rubber flex

Couldn't agree more.

[Bearxj86]

The first time I saw a royal oak in person my heart skipped a beat. It was gorgeous and the differential polish between satin and high polish including the bevels- the way it plays with the light blew me away.

The first time I saw the Antartique in person and handled it. It was nice, but I was not blown away.

Personal opinion here but this is not a real comparison. The antartique is a nice but its a different tier. Would argue royal oak is S tier, and Antartique is around A or even b tier.

The question would be back in the early 2010s when the Jumbo and 15400 were trading under $20k, you put them side by side with the Czapek, who would choose which?

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Agreed in that the AP is a very dated, old piece with typical single-dimension thinking. Czapek is a refreshing new take, that does hark back to a bit of history as well, with far more emotion-enhancing multi-dimensional appeal.

i've done 'silly stuff' like this in the past... What someone should do is be on the street and have both AP and Czapek. Then ask passers-by:

1. Which one they feel is more appealing.

2. Which one is of higher quality.

3. Which one is / has (insert other questions here).

i truly love 'boots-on-the-ground' research.

[Ichiran]

The Jumbo is one of the sexiest watches ever designed and created IMO. It's a timeless icon that I honestly felt has never aged a single day since 72. God bless Gérald Genta.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

The question would be back in the early 2010s when the Jumbo and 15400 were trading under $20k, you put them side by side with the Czapek, who would choose which?

Czapek every time. i easily had the opportunity to get the AP, and saw it on Mr Robot and also Billions (season 2 onwards). Bet ya if i asked my AD for an AP he'd get me one too. This week was offered to have a custom GP made and passed on the very kind, gracious offer. Nothing against GP per se, they just don't sing to me other than their tank, but who the heck puts a round movement in a square case? That screams laziness to me.

As much as the new basic and normal complication Pateks are what they are (yawn), back in the day the Old Man had a run of square/Stingray timepieces and he had special square movements within them. Not sure if the Marketing Kid would do that today for a small batch of PP timepieces (unless he priced them 70% higher than they should be, and be sure to donate the first one to charity during an auction to ensure someone overpays for one so it makes headlines and in hopes of 'setting the price'. We've seen this FAUX PLAY before time and again).

As for the Bvlgari Octo FS with 100m WP rating, on the other hand, got one the moment i saw it. The value is extremely obvious to my eyes. But hey, that's me.

jmho

[szabo_martin]

AP has been making the same watch for 50 years, Czapek just started a couple of years ago. I think for what it is its an amazing start. Quality is subjective and so is design. They're both made of SS, the RO would definitely have more time in the finishing given the bracelet and the angles on the case. That said I agree APs marketing strategy is borderline cringe where Czapek is a breath of fresh air

[Nicof]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

The first time I saw a royal oak in person my heart skipped a beat. It was gorgeous and the differential polish between satin and high polish including the bevels- the way it plays with the light blew me away.

The first time I saw the Antartique in person and handled it. It was nice, but I was not blown away.

Personal opinion here but this is not a real comparison. The antartique is a nice but its a different tier. Would argue royal oak is S tier, and Antartique is around A or even b tier.

The question would be back in the early 2010s when the Jumbo and 15400 were trading under $20k, you put them side by side with the Czapek, who would choose which?

We seem to agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

The first time I saw a royal oak in person my heart skipped a beat. It was gorgeous and the differential polish between satin and high polish including the bevels- the way it plays with the light blew me away.

The first time I saw the Antartique in person and handled it. It was nice, but I was not blown away.

Personal opinion here but this is not a real comparison. The antartique is a nice but its a different tier. Would argue royal oak is S tier, and Antartique is around A or even b tier.

The question would be back in the early 2010s when the Jumbo and 15400 were trading under $20k, you put them side by side with the Czapek, who would choose which?

The 15202 in a landslide.

[ILoveFerrari]

Czapek strategy reminds me of Tesla. Reduce number of so called limited edition and so many color choices like g-shock, I am in!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by illiguy

The 15202 in a landslide.

Good this makes me very happy!

[Cru Jones]

The Czapek is a nice watch (the new "salmon" version especially), but there are several others in its range I would pick instead (two of them shown in this thread: PF & Odysseus).

The 16202 is a heart stopper, IMHO. One of the best.

So, for me, this isn't even a comparison.

[ILoveFerrari]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

The Czapek is a nice watch (the new "salmon" version especially), but there are several others in its range I would pick instead (two of them shown in this thread: PF & Odysseus).

The 16202 is a heart stopper, IMHO. One of the best.

So, for me, this isn't even a comparison.

unfortunately SS blue Odysseus is as unobtainable as others as well. A Lange just made 3000 watches last year.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by charger_vital

Same with the Odysseus... Regardless of whether you like the watch or not... is it really an integrated bracelet sport watch or just a sport watch with a bracelet that's trying really hard to integrate? The strap/bracelet is doing all the work when it attaches to what looks like a generic straight lug configuration (one where you could literally fit on NATO strap if you wanted to) and then needs massive outcropping outboard of the lugs to "integrate" with the case. It's not a criticism of the watch, its just that I'm not sure you can call it an integrated bracelet anymore than you can call a Rolex Deep Sea an integrated bracelet if you were to you affix it to a "flared" rubber B strap.

Originally Posted by ilovegt

looks pretty integrated to me.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

Leave it to professional writers to explain it in words, better than I could with a picture...


https://timeandtidewatches.com/with-...er-sport-auto/

"The A. Lange & Söhne Odysseus has really intrigued buyers, with a distinctly Lange take on the high horology steel sports category. But, technically speaking, while a sports watch it is not an integrated design. Its bracelet may sit flush to the case, but its links are not integrated into it."

"Now in regard to the “integrated sports watch throne”, technically, like the Lange Odysseus, the bracelet sits flush to the case – it is not integrated into it. But also like the Odysseus, the Urban Jürgense One ref. 5421 has become a mandatory point of conversation when it comes to worthy alternatives to watches like the Nautilus."

[enjoythemusic]

Newcomer Czapek getting 25% of the vote is extremely impressive against an old-timer like AP. The next decade of horology will be very interesting!

<Happy Dance>

[CasinoRoyale_007]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Newcomer Czapek getting 25% of the vote is extremely impressive against an old-timer like AP. The next decade of horology will be very interesting!

<Happy Dance>

This is what shocked me in a positive way. Very impressive showing by Czapek…

[Amanubis]

Originally Posted by AlyRba

The comparison is unfair. With both history and brand prestige on 15202 side, it’s an easy call.

Someone said above that Czapek is not even in top 10 and then went on to mention Chopard Alpine Eagle, that is quite unfair also.

From my personal experience of owning Nautilus, Royal Oak including 15202, Aquanaut, Overseas 3rd gen, and few others, I feel 15202, Nautilus 5711/5712, and Lange Odysseus are leaders of the pack closely followed by Vacheron Overseas (I am only considering entry level offerings). Then you have the likes of Czapek Antarctique and Moser Streamliner Center Seconds. After that you have the second tier of luxury sports watches that includes the likes of Alpine Eagle and Laureato. No way a Laureato or an Alpine Eagle can be compared with an Antarctique or Streamliner, there is clear difference in terms of finish, movement, and overall offering. I own an Alpine Eagle and have an Antarctique on order.

I would compare Antarctique to a 15500/15550. Antarctique has an edge in movement finish whereas Royal Oak has a better finished bracelet. On the dial side, the choice is down to personal aesthetics. That is without considering brand history and prestige as those two factors will change the equation considerably. But comparing simply as a product, Antarctique holds its own against a 15500/15550.

Not sure I would agree. I have owned both the Alpine Eagle and the VC Overseas, and the finishing and attention to detail in both is nearly up there with the best - perhaps just below a 5711 but really, really impressive nonetheless. If only the Alpine Eagle came with an LUC movement...

[bullies]

I'll let you know when I get my Czapek in ~16 months , but even then I'll have to compare it to the 15400

[Michael T]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Not to derail but the Pf micro rotor is a much more comparable piece in terms of case dimensions. It’s design avoids being genta derivative and it’s WR to 100m.

It can also be purchased today by anyone!

This^. I think this is one of the under rated pieces out there.