On "Authenticity" and "Originality" (makes you go "hmmm...")

[Guybrush]

Mindful here of the ancient metaphysical quandary about the “Ship of Theseus” (easily Googleable): if you rebuild a ship entirely but gradually, one plank at a time, is it the same ship when you’re done? If not, at what point did it become something new?

I’m thinking about this in terms of “originality” and “authenticity,” which, when it comes to watches, seem to be two closely related concepts.

I’m not considering counterfeit watches in this pondering---nothing that’s truly fake. I’m also not thinking about deliberate aftermarket customizations or GMT-bezel or bracelet swaps, etc.

It strikes me that when it comes to a Rolex watch (of any vintage) there are distinct possibilities. Assuming all such information is known, it’s going to fit one of these categories:

1) original and unserviced

2) original; serviced but no parts replaced

3) original-equivalent within the normal range; serviced with the usual wearable/internal parts replaced by identical OEM parts

4) original-equivalent but outside the normal range; serviced with more than the usual wearable/internal parts replaced by identical OEM parts—with a service case or service/swapped dial, for example

5) mostly original; presumably serviced by a non-RSC tech with some of the usual wearable/internal parts replaced by non-OEM equivalents

6) unoriginal/compromised; modified to include non-OEM parts beyond the usual wearable/internal parts replaced during a routine service

Have I missed anything essential?

I’m betting that most of us with older (previously serviced) watches are very comfortable with anything up through #3, and less but still many of us (myself included) are ok with #4 under specific conditions—maybe not a service case, but a reference-appropriate, RSC-performed dial swap, say.

I’m wondering: where do you draw the line? Would you consider a #5? And (per the “Ship of Theseus” question) at what point, if any, would you say “this is no longer an authentic Rolex in my eyes”?

Unlike a rare book or a bottle of whisky or something, a Rolex (like a car or a guitar, I suppose) is a mass-produced, serviceable product, so the link between “originality” and “authenticity” is actually sort of subjective… Right?

Just curious to learn where others stand on this question.

[mountainjogger]

All my Rolexes have been either new, or number 4. Never had a Rolex serviced with non Rolex parts. Would not want to go down that road unless it was extremely rare and parts were not available.

[dannyp]

For non-vintage, #4 is basically no different that any other. Service cases only really “change” a watch when the vintage nature of the case, and its preservation, are part of the appeal.

Rolex seems to consider the mid case to be “the” watch, since, to my knowledge, it’s the only place with the serial. So any service done to movement by RSC wouldn’t seem to alter originality, but more sure if Rolex even has defined this.

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

All my Rolexes have been either new, or number 4. Never had a Rolex serviced with non Rolex parts. Would not want to go down that road unless it was extremely rare and parts were not available.

100% agree
My watches are all bought new but would never non-Rolex ever

[faimag]

I guess it's nearly impossible to find vintage examples in cat 1, unless they were bought back then and somehow forgotten in a safe/drawer. It's also unlikely they were serviced at RSC during their lifetime with no parts replaced (cat 2). Most of my 4 and 5 digits are cat 3.

[straho824]

Very beautiful post

[Chester01]

So this depends on the watch, model, and intended purpose for me. For example, I like the old GMT's prior to the white gold surrounds. Now, if I were going to get one, im starting my own legacy and would wear it often. So I would be quite comfortable with a very clean case, say original, but new bracelet, service dial/hands, and perhaps even a new bezel. Why, because in that case, im not simply collecting the watch, but really like the look and want to have a watch that's functional and having it water resistant and with lume that works, adds to the functionality to me. Now, If I were to get a way 321 speedster, I would opt for as original as possible.

I have a U series 16610 and wear it often and its tritium and no longer holds a glow. I have toyed with getting a service dial/hands to bring back some of that functionality. Now given the watch was gifted to me by my deceased mother and worn by me during most of life's major moments in the last 25 years, IDK, its a struggle and for me personally depends very much on the watch.

I wanted a Seiko H558 (I have the new arnie and with 6.5 inch wrists its not the most versatile) and picked one up let year to wear. It did not bother me that the shroud and crystal not original, as I want to wear it any not worry, not as a museum piece.

[Guybrush]

That makes a lot of sense—different standards for different collecting/wearing priorities.

I think I’ve read here (but can’t find where) that RSC won’t service a watch with non-OEM parts, which implies that, for them, even one replaced “plank” fundamentally changes the ship. Not sure if that’s true.

[Guybrush]

Here, maybe:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=481976