Zenith Daytona 16520 caliber 4030 power reserve question

[Lalaji]

Dear friends,

There is something regarding the 16520 movement needing your experience sharing and expert advice please.

I recently bought an 16520 and had it returned to the shop for checking after a day because it kept stopping. The shop had it serviced and passed it back to me.

Since I got back the watch, the watch seems moving just fine. But then I found an issue which I don't know if this is normal for this caliber.

The watch seems moving fine for about 5x hours if i manually wind it fully. However, if I just manual wind say around 10 times at the start of the day and leave it self wind for the rest of the day (an around 5000 steps walking days only), the watch seems stopping rather soon. There was a day which the watch stopped at 10pm and another day stoped at 4am when I both left the watch still at around 7pm after work.

This never happens to my other watches. No matter how little I move that day, my other watches can always keep moving until next morning.

It seems to me this watch does not wind well automatically. Is this the characteristics of this 4030 caliber? Or it sounds like a problem with this watch and I should have it serviced again?

Thanks for any experience sharing

[Tools]

10 winds is insufficient, that doesn't even put in a fourth of what is needed for a full wind.

An automatic watch is intended to be kept wound by movement while wearing it. It is not intended to be wound up that way.

If you start with only 20 hours or so of power reserve, and are unable to increase that, or even put in less with insufficient activity, your watch is likely running down and will stop.

[Lalaji]

Originally Posted by Tools

10 winds is insufficient, that doesn't even put in a fourth of what is needed for a full wind.

An automatic watch is intended to be kept wound by movement while wearing it. It is not intended to be wound up that way.

If you start with only 20 hours or so of power reserve, and are unable to increase that, or even put in less with insufficient activity, your watch is likely running down and will stop.

Thanks fo the answer.

I just realize what I the way I power up my automatic watch was wrong. Thanks for telling me.

But I still cannot get this off my head because this is what I have been doing with the rest of my automatic watches. (Although as you said I might not be doing it the most correct way). They all get wound up and increase power when I wear it with normal daily activities. Especially I can see that in my watches which has power reserve indicator. So I just can't help to think that this watch is harder to gain power through wearing activities. Or there is some issue needs to be serviced.

[Biggy2X4]

There is a modification that can be done to increase wind rate.
Who did you bring the watch to for service after purchase?

Assuming you bought it from a non Rolex jeweler, I can also assume they performed inferior work on your watch.
I wouldn't trust a non authorized watchmaker on a 4030

[klenboy]

If you really want to find out if the watch is functioning properly you'll have to perform a power reserve test. Fully wind the watch (mainly winding for 2 minutes straight will ensure it's fully wound), set the watch to reference time, and observe every 24 hours the deviation from reference time to arrive at SPD. Note down the date and time you start the test and when the watch stops to get the power reserve.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by klenboy

If you really want to find out if the watch is functioning properly you'll have to perform a power reserve test. Fully wind the watch (mainly winding for 2 minutes straight will ensure it's fully wound), set the watch to reference time, and observe every 24 hours the deviation from reference time to arrive at SPD. Note down the date and time you start the test and when the watch stops to get the power reserve.

Movements like the cal 4130 need at least 40 full crown turns clockwise only, as they only wind on forward wind. And you cannot overwind any movement in the Rolex range, when mainspring is fully wound up it just slips in the spring barrel. And will add just wearing a watch dont wind the watch, its wrist activity that winds the watch. So even when worn a manual wind say once a week will do no harm whatsoever, but will keep mainspring at peak power reserve.

[Lalaji]

Originally Posted by klenboy

If you really want to find out if the watch is functioning properly you'll have to perform a power reserve test. Fully wind the watch (mainly winding for 2 minutes straight will ensure it's fully wound), set the watch to reference time, and observe every 24 hours the deviation from reference time to arrive at SPD. Note down the date and time you start the test and when the watch stops to get the power reserve.

Thanks for the suggestion, I had done the exact same test and the watch did well and mananged to move 50 plus hours.

The only problem I find now is the automatic winding through my wrist movement did not seem gaining power efficiently compare with my other watches. Say if I start my day with the watch still ticking without doing any manual winding, through a day's normal activities, the watch could stop after I place it still for a few hours.

[Jmaster]

One of the YouTube watch guys, who seems very knowledgeable, mentioned that the zenith movement in the 16520 has some issue with the power reserve, and it’s known to be not able to get remotely close to the 40 hour it was spec for. So this might explain why you need to fully wind the watch every time you wear it. This was also one of the reasons why Rolex extended the power reserve when it launch its own movement in the 116520.

[Lalaji]

Originally Posted by Jmaster

One of the YouTube watch guys, who seems very knowledgeable, mentioned that the zenith movement in the 16520 has some issue with the power reserve, and it’s known to be not able to get remotely close to the 40 hour it was spec for. So this might explain why you need to fully wind the watch every time you wear it. This was also one of the reasons why Rolex extended the power reserve when it launch its own movement in the 116520.

This is exactly what I feel so far about the watch. Luckily the watch seems to be able to have 50hr+ after fullanual wind. Just that it doesn't respond well to auto winding through wriat movement.

[travisb]

Originally Posted by Tools

10 winds is insufficient, that doesn't even put in a fourth of what is needed for a full wind.

An automatic watch is intended to be kept wound by movement while wearing it. It is not intended to be wound up that way.

If you start with only 20 hours or so of power reserve, and are unable to increase that, or even put in less with insufficient activity, your watch is likely running down and will stop.

Originally Posted by padi56

Movements like the cal 4130 need at least 40 full crown turns clockwise only, as they only wind on forward wind. And you cannot overwind any movement in the Rolex range, when mainspring is fully wound up it just slips in the spring barrel. And will add just wearing a watch dont wind the watch, its wrist activity that winds the watch. So even when worn a manual wind say once a week will do no harm whatsoever, but will keep mainspring at peak power reserve.

This and this.
I have 2 Zenith Daytonas and no issues with PR.

[Nikia]

As said, a power reserve less than 40 hours may indicate mainspring wear and/or autowinding issues.

[Biggy2X4]

There is a different rotor and intermediate wheel available to improve wind capability.
Or possibly your reverse is not functioning properly.
Or, you are not mobile enough to wind the watch to full wind.
It aounds like you get up and go to work every day, which should be sufficient.
Try putting the watch on directly after your morning shower so you include all the preparations for leaving the house into your watch winding activities

[inadeje]

The zenith Daytona is notorious for the winding pendulum bearings to fail. While they are failing they cause a sticky rotator movement that can make some believe that the rotor still turns so all is well. However, it isn’t free enough on its axis to spin adequately. Inevitably they fail completely and scrape the case back audibly. I’ve had and still have several zenith Daytona’s and they’ve all needed new rotors eventually. The rotor bearings cannot be repaired so a whole new rotor is required. If you service with Rolex they will replace the rotor as a service item during regular maintenance.

Later iterations have ceramic bearings instead of the zeniths (and all other rolex of that era) three steel bearings for that exact reason.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by inadeje

The zenith Daytona is notorious for the winding pendulum bearings to fail. While they are failing they cause a sticky rotator movement that can make some believe that the rotor still turns so all is well. However, it isn’t free enough on its axis to spin adequately. Inevitably they fail completely and scrape the case back audibly. I’ve had and still have several zenith Daytona’s and they’ve all needed new rotors eventually. The rotor bearings cannot be repaired so a whole new rotor is required. If you service with Rolex they will replace the rotor as a service item during regular maintenance.

Later iterations have ceramic bearings instead of the zeniths (and all other rolex of that era) three steel bearings for that exact reason.

Well speaking for myself and been around watches and Rolex for over 50 years have not heard of any problems like you describe with the Zenith movements.Yes because they were a very high beat 36000BPH movement that had to be serviced correctly around every 3 years,one of the main things that Rolex modded the escapement to 28800 BPH was to bring into line of the 5 years service which was recommended on all Rolex watches at that time.And its the same for the new 32 series movement the whole rotor system has to be replaced it cannot be repaired.

[kyo86sg]

Originally Posted by inadeje

The zenith Daytona is notorious for the winding pendulum bearings to fail. While they are failing they cause a sticky rotator movement that can make some believe that the rotor still turns so all is well. However, it isn’t free enough on its axis to spin adequately. Inevitably they fail completely and scrape the case back audibly. I’ve had and still have several zenith Daytona’s and they’ve all needed new rotors eventually. The rotor bearings cannot be repaired so a whole new rotor is required. If you service with Rolex they will replace the rotor as a service item during regular maintenance.

Later iterations have ceramic bearings instead of the zeniths (and all other rolex of that era) three steel bearings for that exact reason.

Thanks for your insight on this as well.

I have recent purchased a 16528 gold zenith Daytona and getting the some issue with the TS. Wearing it during office hours just trying to shake for a good min (which I can feel the rotor spinning) to start the watch and avoiding manual winding it. The watch stops after 6-8hours.

When I manual wind it to the max, the watch is still keeping time very well and still going fine beyond 24hours (still monitoring)

I suspect something is wrong with the automatic winding but my watch maker is saying I am not wearing the watch long enough?

[Xbj]

I know for sure that the Daytona is known for the winding pendulum bearings to fail. You can watch some helpful videos on YouTube or better still, I suggest you perform a power reserve test. Fully wind the watch (mainly winding for 2 minutes straight will ensure it's fully wound),then set the watch to reference time, and observe every 24 hours the deviation from reference time to arrive at SPD. Observe the date and time you start the test and when the watch stops to get the power reserve.

[Mirek]

Interesting. I had not taken my 16520 off my wrist at all for about 6 years and it always kept perfect time. I maybe wound it a handful of times (just to be safe) but I am certain it ran for months at a time perfectly with zero winding. It never slowed down or actually required me to wind it.

That said, it started to just stop which was TOTALLY out of character so it is in for service right now (a 15 week wait for a 16520 full service at Rolex BTW)