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60s_Sub · 23 June 2009, 06:39 PM

My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?

60s_Sub · 23 June 2009, 06:42 PM

My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?

padi56 · 23 June 2009, 06:55 PM

Your pictures are very poor but your watch should have Swiss >T25 or T Swiss T at the 6 o'clock position perhaps fonts have faded if original dial.

60s_Sub · 23 June 2009, 06:59 PM

yeah sorry about the bad pictures. while my dad had it he left the crown open a couple times while swimming so maybe it caused the SWISS to fade away because there is no sign of it at the 6 position. and yes its the original dial.

padi56 · 23 June 2009, 09:23 PM

Thats possible perhaps a little water damage but still the dial
/hands are one of the most important things with any vintage watch.And best kept as original as possible most collectors would sooner have a slightly damaged original dial that a modern new replacement.Was your watch serviced by the RSC if so its a wonder they did not want you to change the dial my advise keep it as it is original.

SLS · 23 June 2009, 11:13 PM

Wow, what a great piece of history to have, Congrats! Any chance of a few better pictures of the dial? Use the macro function (flower button) on your camera. If you remove the bracelet you will find the reference number between the lugs at 12:00 and the serial number at 6:00. That info will help a lot. The insert and hands were replaced, any chance the dial was redone as well? It could be a 5512, but I thought the gilt, minute track dialed 5512's were always meters first, this appears to be feet first. The lack of markings on the dial at the 6:00 is intriguing. To answer your question, I have seen one watch without the "Swiss" on the bottom, but the dial had been redone early in its life!
Scott

SLS · 23 June 2009, 11:35 PM

Check your post in the vintage froum.
Scott

mike · 24 June 2009, 08:56 AM

Very hard to tell anything from the pics, but I'd be with Scott that perhaps the dial has been refinished at some point. Gilt should be meters first and at a 67 vintage I would say a 5513.

Better photos would reveal more.

onkyo · 24 June 2009, 11:43 PM

Yes, better photos please.

Esp of dial! Thx.

And of course welcome aboard.

60s_Sub · 25 June 2009, 08:21 AM

Here are some better pictures. And I think what happened to the SWISS marking is that the dial is unevenly placed inside the watch. You can kind of tell the outer gold ring on the dial is lower on the bottom of the dial. Not sure if that makes sense but let me know what you think.....

SSD · 25 June 2009, 10:04 AM

Do we know who worked on the watch or did any dial refinishing on it in the past? I am concerned about whoever it was because of the coronet. Here is a link to a site with vintage pics for reference:

http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/gallery.html

Yes, it should have the Swiss markings visible as Padi indicated.

Watchmakers aside, it is wonderful you have a timepiece with such history!!!

SSD · 25 June 2009, 10:33 AM

Posted in April by T5AUS/ Phil. This is an example of what I am referring to, and why I question the watchmaker's work.

stevemulholland3 · 25 June 2009, 10:58 AM

sorry my friend but your dial is definitely refinished..an original dial with gilt writting would be upwards of 2k for a poor quality one..

onkyo · 25 June 2009, 02:10 PM

Yes, the dial is definitively refinished.

And it was not done perfectly because of the unevenness at the top and bottom.

The hands are also replacement.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, just the value to collectors goes down significantly.

Most important is that you enjoy the piece.

SDDS · 28 June 2009, 11:06 PM

very nice piece...

peppermannen · 29 June 2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSD

Do we know who worked on the watch or did any dial refinishing on it in the past? I am concerned about whoever it was because of the coronet. Here is a link to a site with vintage pics for reference:

http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/gallery.html

Yes, it should have the Swiss markings visible as Padi indicated.

Watchmakers aside, it is wonderful you have a timepiece with such history!!!

That's a very nice watch, congrats! However, I agree, there's something fishy about that dial. I was looking for a dial for my 1675, and came across this one on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Rolex-GMT-Master...3%3A1|294%3A50
Has the same strange-looking coronet. Guess that one too is a bad refinish, or just a fake?

Petter

T5AUS · 29 June 2009, 07:52 AM

Hi 60's Sub, this comparison side by side shows the difference, sorry mate, but that certainly is a re touched dial. The hands look as though they have been re lumed too. Still, since it was a gift from your grandfather you should cherish it, it's still an iconic piece and who knows, you might be able to find a good original period dial for it some day, they do appear from time to time. What serial no does it have and do you have any photo's of the movement.

DelightfullyRaging · 29 June 2009, 08:08 AM

Its still something to treasure, no matter what

CKLinLA · 30 June 2009, 07:21 PM

Its a great watch to keep and enjoy - all the more special since it has family history. I am a 'brand new'Sub owner myself - and chose a 14060 (no date) partly because of its similarity in looks to your watch.

On your Q about whether it is a model 5513 or 5512, you should see the serial number and model number when you remove the bracelet. They are on the casing under the two end-pieces of the bracelet at the 6 and 12 positions.

You can do this yourself. I find that using a sharp wooden toothpick to push in the pins is a good option if you do not have the proper tools (and assuming the pins are not 'stuck' in place due to the watch's age). A wooden tooth pick will assure that you do not add any scratches to the watch if your hand slips.

23 June 2009, 06:39 PM	#1
60s_Sub "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: William Location: Long Beach Watch: 1962 Submariner Posts: 8	My Early 60s Submariner My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?

23 June 2009, 06:42 PM	#2
60s_Sub "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: William Location: Long Beach Watch: 1962 Submariner Posts: 8	60s Submariner Question My grandfather bought this overseas in 1967 and I got it on my 18th birthday. Not positive but it is either a 5512 or 5513. The original band was stolen years ago but my parents replaced it with a more recent Oyster band. Just had it serviced and the watch runs perfectly. One question.....I notice that this one does not have "SWISS" marked at the bottom. Does anyone know why? Or does anyone have one without the "SWISS" on theirs?

23 June 2009, 06:55 PM	#3
padi56 "TRF" Life Patron Join Date: Jun 2005 Real Name: Peter Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng Watch: ing you. Posts: 53,044	Your pictures are very poor but your watch should have Swiss >T25 or T Swiss T at the 6 o'clock position perhaps fonts have faded if original dial. __________________ ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder

23 June 2009, 09:23 PM	#5
padi56 "TRF" Life Patron Join Date: Jun 2005 Real Name: Peter Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng Watch: ing you. Posts: 53,044	Thats possible perhaps a little water damage but still the dial /hands are one of the most important things with any vintage watch.And best kept as original as possible most collectors would sooner have a slightly damaged original dial that a modern new replacement.Was your watch serviced by the RSC if so its a wonder they did not want you to change the dial my advise keep it as it is original. __________________ ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder

23 June 2009, 11:13 PM	#6
SLS "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Real Name: Scott Location: GMT -7 Watch: GMT's & Sub's Posts: 10,401	Wow, what a great piece of history to have, Congrats! Any chance of a few better pictures of the dial? Use the macro function (flower button) on your camera. If you remove the bracelet you will find the reference number between the lugs at 12:00 and the serial number at 6:00. That info will help a lot. The insert and hands were replaced, any chance the dial was redone as well? It could be a 5512, but I thought the gilt, minute track dialed 5512's were always meters first, this appears to be feet first. The lack of markings on the dial at the 6:00 is intriguing. To answer your question, I have seen one watch without the "Swiss" on the bottom, but the dial had been redone early in its life! Scott __________________ "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin Member No. 922

23 June 2009, 06:59 PM	#4
60s_Sub "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: William Location: Long Beach Watch: 1962 Submariner Posts: 8	yeah sorry about the bad pictures. while my dad had it he left the crown open a couple times while swimming so maybe it caused the SWISS to fade away because there is no sign of it at the 6 position. and yes its the original dial.

23 June 2009, 11:35 PM	#7
SLS "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Real Name: Scott Location: GMT -7 Watch: GMT's & Sub's Posts: 10,401	Check your post in the vintage froum. Scott __________________ "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin Member No. 922

24 June 2009, 08:56 AM	#8
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	Very hard to tell anything from the pics, but I'd be with Scott that perhaps the dial has been refinished at some point. Gilt should be meters first and at a 67 vintage I would say a 5513. Better photos would reveal more.

24 June 2009, 11:43 PM	#9
onkyo Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Pav Location: Manhattan Posts: 11,495	Yes, better photos please. Esp of dial! Thx. And of course welcome aboard.

25 June 2009, 08:21 AM	#10
60s_Sub "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: William Location: Long Beach Watch: 1962 Submariner Posts: 8	Here are some better pictures. And I think what happened to the SWISS marking is that the dial is unevenly placed inside the watch. You can kind of tell the outer gold ring on the dial is lower on the bottom of the dial. Not sure if that makes sense but let me know what you think.....

25 June 2009, 10:04 AM	#11
SSD "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Real Name: Jamie Location: Georgia Watch: Stainless Sub Date Posts: 3,023	Do we know who worked on the watch or did any dial refinishing on it in the past? I am concerned about whoever it was because of the coronet. Here is a link to a site with vintage pics for reference: http://www.vintagesubmariner.com/gallery.html Yes, it should have the Swiss markings visible as Padi indicated. Watchmakers aside, it is wonderful you have a timepiece with such history!!! __________________ SUBMARINER OWNERS' CLUB ESTABLISHED 1953 TRF Member # 5464

25 June 2009, 10:58 AM	#13
stevemulholland3 Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: steven Location: tampa bay Watch: 1680 18k sub Posts: 6,672	sorry my friend but your dial is definitely refinished..an original dial with gilt writting would be upwards of 2k for a poor quality one..

25 June 2009, 02:10 PM	#14
onkyo Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Pav Location: Manhattan Posts: 11,495	Yes, the dial is definitively refinished. And it was not done perfectly because of the unevenness at the top and bottom. The hands are also replacement. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just the value to collectors goes down significantly. Most important is that you enjoy the piece.

28 June 2009, 11:06 PM	#15
SDDS "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Real Name: Yazan Location: Canada Posts: 4,782	very nice piece... __________________ Patek Philippe 5167 Patek Philippe 5905P black dial Rolex Deepsea 116660 M series Rolex Oysterquartz 17000 N series Rolex OP 41MM 124300 Green Dial

29 June 2009, 08:08 AM	#18
DelightfullyRaging "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: bollywood Posts: 9	Its still something to treasure, no matter what

30 June 2009, 07:21 PM	#19
CKLinLA "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Real Name: KL Location: Los Angeles Watch: Explorer II Black Posts: 1,480	Its a great watch to keep and enjoy - all the more special since it has family history. I am a 'brand new'Sub owner myself - and chose a 14060 (no date) partly because of its similarity in looks to your watch. On your Q about whether it is a model 5513 or 5512, you should see the serial number and model number when you remove the bracelet. They are on the casing under the two end-pieces of the bracelet at the 6 and 12 positions. You can do this yourself. I find that using a sharp wooden toothpick to push in the pins is a good option if you do not have the proper tools (and assuming the pins are not 'stuck' in place due to the watch's age). A wooden tooth pick will assure that you do not add any scratches to the watch if your hand slips. __________________ Explorer II 1655; Day Date 1803; Submariner 14060; Deepsea Sea-Dweller 116660; 5-Digit Datejusts; Perpetual Date 1500 and 15000; Pelagos FXD M25707B; Omega Dynamic 'Targa Florio' 5291.51.07; 'Good Planet' GMT 232.30.44.22.03.001; Planet Ocean 215.30.40.20.03.002; Zenith Chronomaster Original 03.3200.3600/22.M3200.

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