What position is best to store a watch at night? Is friction on the movement a thing?

[burnthesehills]

I have read about storing a watch at night in various positions to regulate the accuracy. For example, lay on its caseback to speed it up, on its side (crown up) to slow down, etc. I have also read that the reason for this is that laying on its side creates friction on the movement which helps slow the watch down a bit. With this in mind, would it be better for the movement if the watch was stored with the least amount of friction possible?

I realize this is not a big deal and likely will not affect the movement much if at all over time. Just curious about the concept of friction on the movement and whether or not this is even a thing.

Thanks everyone.

[Roddypeepa]

Well. It depends. Most watches run slow in one/ more than one position.

At least 2 of mine are slightly slow in multiple positions so makes regulating it almost impossible.

Find out what she does on the wrist. Find out what she does dial up/ dial down/ crown up/crown down.

Position watch to suit wearing timekeeping.

It’s trial and error. Temperature, spring tension, wear etc all affect “accuracy” and there’s 86 400 s per day. A few seconds here and there won’t change your enjoyment.

Yes. Friction wears movement and perhaps amplitude changes… slightly. But as to wearing out more in one position…? No I don’t think so. Will need servicing every 5-20 years anyway. Do this, it’s much more important than religiously putting it in the same position.. watches are tough.

You wouldn’t run an expensive car with no serving. Same for anything mechanical including watches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StanGMT]

As I understand it, it's not about friction effects. The natural vibration frequency of the balance wheel/hairspring assembly varies subtly, by a tiny amount, under the action of gravity acting in different directions. Friction alone would produce only a damping effect and wouldn't directly change the frequency.

What Roddypeepa says is spot on - many different factors influence the regulation of a watch and a bit of trial and error will lead you to establish what works best for you.

Stan.

[cerendigit]

Don’t sweat the small stuff.

It’s just a watch.

[brandrea]

I think it’s a good question Joe

Looking forward to more replies on the wear aspect (not interested in the regulation part of the equation)

[aehaas]

I never heard that there is wear to worry about. But certainly a different position every night would mitigate the issue, if it existed.

Ali

[Kingranch]

Wear it while you sleep. Mine almost never comes off.

[beshannon]

Friction yes but gravity also plays a part

[Calatrava r]

One would think friction is pretty the same no matter what the position. In a modern Rolex watch friction is really nonexistent, but the regulatory aspects tell what positions create the most drag on the movement. Slower rate means more drag.

[Jack T]

I’ve heard and read a lot about this, but none of it matters to me. Either crown up, or dial up, however I put it down.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by burnthesehills

I have read about storing a watch at night in various positions to regulate the accuracy. For example, lay on its caseback to speed it up, on its side (crown up) to slow down, etc. I have also read that the reason for this is that laying on its side creates friction on the movement which helps slow the watch down a bit. With this in mind, would it be better for the movement if the watch was stored with the least amount of friction possible?
. . .

Yes, friction is a thing. So is gravity and temperature expansion/contraction.

Lay your watch however gives you the best timing or peace of mind. You cannot change physics.

[enjoythemusic]

I wear it on my wrist 24/7. Each time you take it off you're adding risk of dropping it on a hard surface. Wear and njoy

[danwang0520]

at night, it will be on my watch winder.......

[Oystersteel92]

Originally Posted by burnthesehills

I have read about storing a watch at night in various positions to regulate the accuracy. For example, lay on its caseback to speed it up, on its side (crown up) to slow down, etc. I have also read that the reason for this is that laying on its side creates friction on the movement which helps slow the watch down a bit. With this in mind, would it be better for the movement if the watch was stored with the least amount of friction possible?

I realize this is not a big deal and likely will not affect the movement much if at all over time. Just curious about the concept of friction on the movement and whether or not this is even a thing.

Thanks everyone.

This works like a charm on my 126603. I check it against the radio clock every night and if she's fast I go crown up and if she's slow I go face up. I pretty much stay right on the money doing this. Dang accurate watch.

My Daytona could care less. She does what she wants, which is generally to gain a couple seconds a day.

[Blanch]

The best way to store your Rolex is the way Rolex stores them, ships them, displays them: Facing up.

[burnthesehills]

Originally Posted by Blanch

The best way to store your Rolex is the way Rolex stores them, ships them, displays them: Facing up.

Rolex displays watches??

Kidding. Good point!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by burnthesehills

I have read about storing a watch at night in various positions to regulate the accuracy. For example, lay on its caseback to speed it up, on its side (crown up) to slow down, etc. I have also read that the reason for this is that laying on its side creates friction on the movement which helps slow the watch down a bit. With this in mind, would it be better for the movement if the watch was stored with the least amount of friction possible?

I realize this is not a big deal and likely will not affect the movement much if at all over time. Just curious about the concept of friction on the movement and whether or not this is even a thing.

Thanks everyone.

Gravity is the main enemy of any mechanical movement no matter the make or calibre, when resting off wrist dial up or dial down the balance staff runs on the ends of it's pivots very little or no added friction. Thus the balance wheel has a sightly higher amplitude so will make movement run very slightly faster. When watch is off wrist vertical crown up or down or the balance staff pivots runs on the sides of the balance pivot causing a tiny more added friction this slows the amplitude so will run very slightly slower. In wearing through the day these positions hopefully balance out if watch is regulated correctly.A well regulated watch will have an amplitude of between 270 to 300 in different positions on full manual winding.And on one of these winding machines things where the watch is normally in the same position 24/7 this too could vary compared to when watch on the wrist.But in the real world since the 3 series resting positions no matter how you rest, upright or downside up we are talking about perhaps a couple of second or less difference when resting say overnight off wrist. But most all movement could be slightly different depending on say mainspring power-reserve plus many others but how you rest overnight of wrist will have no effect on any extra wear on watch..

[eespi003]

Originally Posted by cerendigit

Don’t sweat the small stuff.

It’s just a watch.

Haha right!

[burnthesehills]

Originally Posted by padi56

Gravity is the main enemy of any mechanical movement no matter the make or calibre, when resting off wrist dial up or dial down the balance staff runs on the ends of it's pivots very little or no added friction. Thus the balance wheel has a sightly higher amplitude so will make movement run very slightly faster. When watch is off wrist vertical crown up or down or the balance staff pivots runs on the sides of the balance pivot causing a tiny more added friction this slows the amplitude so will run very slightly slower. In wearing through the day these positions hopefully balance out if watch is regulated correctly.A well regulated watch will have an amplitude of between 270 to 300 in different positions on full manual winding.And on one of these winding machines things where the watch is normally in the same position 24/7 this too could vary compared to when watch on the wrist.But in the real world since the 3 series resting positions no matter how you rest, upright or downside up we are talking about perhaps a couple of second or less difference when resting say overnight off wrist. But most all movement could be slightly different depending on say mainspring power-reserve plus many others but how you rest overnight of wrist will have no effect on any extra wear on watch..

This is the info I was looking for, thank you!!

[Chewbacca]

Joe at the next watches and whiskey event.

- So, did you all know gravity has a bit more to do with wear on your watch moreso than resting position?

*Joe gets thrown out of the bar head first*

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by padi56

Gravity is the main enemy of any mechanical movement no matter the make or calibre, when resting off wrist dial up or dial down the balance staff runs on the ends of it's pivots very little or no added friction. Thus the balance wheel has a sightly higher amplitude so will make movement run very slightly faster. When watch is off wrist vertical crown up or down or the balance staff pivots runs on the sides of the balance pivot causing a tiny more added friction this slows the amplitude so will run very slightly slower. In wearing through the day these positions hopefully balance out if watch is regulated correctly.A well regulated watch will have an amplitude of between 270 to 300 in different positions on full manual winding.And on one of these winding machines things where the watch is normally in the same position 24/7 this too could vary compared to when watch on the wrist.But in the real world since the 3 series resting positions no matter how you rest, upright or downside up we are talking about perhaps a couple of second or less difference when resting say overnight off wrist. But most all movement could be slightly different depending on say mainspring power-reserve plus many others but how you rest overnight of wrist will have no effect on any extra wear on watch..

Ok, I'm a little confused now. I also read on this forum that higher amplitude slows a watch down slightly (all other things being equal, the watch is properly regulated and running fine otherwise). It was explained that higher amplitude increases the time between "tick and tock", that is the extremes of the position of the balance wheel before it starts going in the opposite direction. Is this incorrect?

[Meyrin]

FWIW I got this with my 14060 when I bought it new in 1996. I always lay my Sub "dial up" overnight, and it seems to work. But I´m not sure if this would be the case with more modern Rolex calibers!
Bildschirmfoto 2019-08-21 um 15.41.56.jpg

[StanGMT]

This might be of interest . . . . .

https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/02/pos...-accuracy.html

Stan.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by padi56

Gravity is the main enemy of any mechanical movement no matter the make or calibre, when resting off wrist dial up or dial down the balance staff runs on the ends of it's pivots very little or no added friction. Thus the balance wheel has a sightly higher amplitude so will make movement run very slightly faster. When watch is off wrist vertical crown up or down or the balance staff pivots runs on the sides of the balance pivot causing a tiny more added friction this slows the amplitude so will run very slightly slower. In wearing through the day these positions hopefully balance out if watch is regulated correctly.A well regulated watch will have an amplitude of between 270 to 300 in different positions on full manual winding.And on one of these winding machines things where the watch is normally in the same position 24/7 this too could vary compared to when watch on the wrist.But in the real world since the 3 series resting positions no matter how you rest, upright or downside up we are talking about perhaps a couple of second or less difference when resting say overnight off wrist. But most all movement could be slightly different depending on say mainspring power-reserve plus many others but how you rest overnight of wrist will have no effect on any extra wear on watch..

Thank you Peter

[medcoastsol]

face down, back up is my favorite position

[Tools]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

Ok, I'm a little confused now. I also read on this forum that higher amplitude slows a watch down slightly (all other things being equal, the watch is properly regulated and running fine otherwise). It was explained that higher amplitude increases the time between "tick and tock", that is the extremes of the position of the balance wheel before it starts going in the opposite direction. Is this incorrect?

Sometimes semantics and language differences can lead to some confusion.

Don't think higher/lower, think longer/shorter, even though on an oscilloscope the curve is actually "higher", it is only higher visually on the upper side of the sine wave - so we get some engineer slang. Naturally, on the bottom half of the wave it is "lower". Yes, the point is that this higher wave is actually a longer amplitude time-wise. Sometimes we think that higher means higher number of ticks and lower means lower numbers, but that isn't really correct, it's the shape of the time-curve.

Gravity affects the swing of the balance; how the pivots rest in their respective points is more about friction. If we imagine the watch resting exactly on both pivots and centered at the balance swing center-point, gravity will be similar to the upswing and backswing (discounting the initial momentum push by the lever). This should be maximum gravity and friction, so slowest position. When resting face (balance staff) up - equal gravity that is not pulling on either side of the balance swing, and single pivot contact. Logic tells us that this should be the "fastest" position.

It's hard to make blanket statements, but if you are resting on both sides of the balance pivots - more friction, combine that with a resting angle tilted towards the upswing - more gravity pull (shortening amplitude). Will this shortened amplitude but high friction contact, cancel each other? Who knows? That's why watches are timed in 5 different positions and the timing is fudged for best performance. You should do the same thing and not be surprised when forums are wrong.

[burnthesehills]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Joe at the next watches and whiskey event.

- So, did you all know gravity has a bit more to do with wear on your watch moreso than resting position?

*Joe gets thrown out of the bar head first*

[burnthesehills]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

This might be of interest . . . . .

https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/02/pos...-accuracy.html

Stan.

Interesting article, thanks for sharing!

[SS Oyster]

Doesn't matter. Friction exists at all times; it's called a law of physics. Also, Rolex tests their watches in five positions and then cases them up and tests them again to not exceed +2 / -2 seconds per day ... pretty amazing!

Don't worry what's going on inside the case. Be more worried about damaging the outside of the case (like the caseback) by just laying it down with the bracelet rubbing against the caseback.

[George58]

wear it to bed in the course of the night it will be in all different positions