Help on Rolex 5513 Bezel Insert Dimensions

[Dom9]

Bezel insert experts; your thoughts if you would be so kind

I don't have the post count for pics/links yet but maybe we'll get there on this thread. Pics sent to seller (of inserts in vernier calipers, watch, bezel, etc.) by other means.

I have bought a couple of inserts from the Rolex Forum Parts section (same source and issues), but to obfuscate the transaction for now, I shall focus on the most 'common' of the inserts; the black, thin font, Rolex 5513 Service Insert.

I understand that a Rolex 5513 should measure: ID=30.3mm, OD=36.55mm

My 5513 service insert measures: ID =30.2mm (-0.1mm), OD=36.0mm (-0.55mm)

The vernier calipers read to 1 decimal place, were zeroed before measurement of course, and 'calibrated' (checked) on some drill bits. With 1 decimal place, I assume +/- 0.05mm.

The insert was described as genuine, great condition and fitting a Rolex 5513 (or Tudor 9411, etc.) bezel. I can confirm that the insert is in great condition with no visible signs of damage, including no (obvious) damage or shaving to the OD.

However, the vernier calipers were brought out as it isn't even close to click fitting the bezel, let alone a tight or friction fit. The ID is fine and fits the plexi (and probably within my measuring ability/caliper tolerance at -0.1mm) but it simply falls out of the bezel ring, being 36.0mm OD.

My view is that's because a 36.0mm insert is never going to fit a 36.5mm bezel/hole (caliper measured), which is meant to take a ~36.55mm insert. You can literally move the insert slightly, up, down, left, right, etc. when in the bezel.

The strange thing is, would Rolex have been so poor on their tolerances/QC to sell a 36.0mm OD insert (35.95mm to 36.04mm OD by my calipers)?

With no signs of wear to the insert, one could assume the bezel is at fault but it measures 'ok' and if the insert measured 'ok', I'd be happy.

It's hard to find dimensions of inserts for sale but looking on ebay at "oldwatchparts" (Crown Art Customs), he lists his aftermarket inserts with the smallest OD being 36.49mm (only one) and the majority (10+) at 36.52mm/36.54mm. There is one genuine bezel with measurements I have found on ebay and that is stated as 36.5mm OD, a full half mil larger than mine.

Questions; would you expect a 36.0mm OD insert to ever fit a 5513/9411 bezel without glue, etc.? Has anyone heard of this 'issue' before i.e could the insert be for another model?

If the 'width' of the insert is <3mm (36.0mm - 30.2mm / 2) then losing almost 0.3mm (0.55mm / 2) off the width is a ~10% loss of metal/tolerance!

My view; this insert is never going to correctly fit 'any' 5513 bezel and at best, it's a genuine insert that has been shaved, but somehow looks perfect on the edge and markers. Same issues with another.

Will post pics if/when I can - thoughts appreciated!

[TimeToGo]

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As you mention, a 36mm insert will not fit into the 5513 bezel.

Is there any "cupping" to the insert?

Since you can not pictures, can you post the sale thread?

Interesting, you have bought a couple of inserts from the same source and same issues...

[swaini3]

Interesting. If anything, a new-ish condition insert (from your description) will more likely be a struggle to fit into the bezel. People usually have the opposite of your problem. Just to rule out the issue with the bezel, have you tried other genuine inserts (other than than ones from this seller) on this bezel?

[springer]

I understand that a Rolex 5513 should measure: ID=30.3mm, OD=36.55mm

My 5513 service insert measures: ID =30.2mm (-0.1mm), OD=36.0mm (-0.55mm)

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Your measurements for a correct Submariner 5513 are correct. Your service measurements as you have found out are not correct. There could be several reasons why this insert does not fit properly. My suggestion would be to return it and find one elsewhere.

[Dom9]

Thanks for reading the long post and providing your thoughts. Apologies for the slow reply; came to the boat on Thursday and having some Wi-Fi issues. Will upload the pics on my Instagram stories and let you know my handle here, when I head home tomorrow. Perhaps someone might be so kind as to screen grab and re-post here?

No cupping as far as I can tell and I'll keep the seller/sales thread out of it for now as I wouldn't wish to cast aspersions without getting to the bottom of it all.

Like I say; if the inserts measured ~36.5mm and still didn't snap into my bezel, I'd be happy with them as clearly they'd be in tolerance and I'd have no cause for concern. They're actually handsome pieces. I'd then go on the hunt for new bezels or bite the bullet and hit RSC.

The only bezel/insert I generally 'play around with' is my 16610 and boy is that a tight snap in, even ~20yrs later.

It seems you're all generally of the same conclusion as me; any insert measuring 36.0mm isn't going to snap into a genuine bezel and without visible 'wear', the issue seems very 'strange'.

Does anyone know what the minimum OD for 'snap' is? I assume it can be smaller than 36.55mm (see the Crown Art Customs dimensions) but below say 36.45mm it's 'too worn'?

Thanks for the help. Will contact the seller again once we've looked at the pics.

[suligeo]

Hi, send me the pics and I post them here.

The inserts are from my last offer.


https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[Tools]

Anybody can attach a photo as long as it meets the size requirements of the file type.

[suligeo]

https://www.instagram.com/vintage_georgex/

[Dom9]

Back in the warm and dry and on Wi-Fi.

suligeo is a gentleman for posting his pics for me. Really handsome inserts and no complaint/interest in returning them if the consensus is it's just an unusual issue with genuine parts.

Gave the insert a little de-tweaking/cupping/flattening and spent some time getting it set up better in the calipers and the OD is now repeatably 36.3mm. Still no bezel snap (falls out) but now no radial movement.

There's probably no more to gain from set up in these calipers, it still measures ~0.25mm off the Rolex figure but a ~0.1mm radial bezel gap, less than a hair's width, is starting to sound much better.

Maybe it's just one of those things that will remain a mystery; insert slightly small, bezel slightly large? The watches (Tudor 9411 Snowflakes) were bought without bezels (I'll do a thread on them when I have more time as they're interesting) so no other parts to hand to measure/compare.

I won't get perfect fitment with used vintage parts so I don't want to be too precious about everything. Will update when I can get the calipers on other inserts / bezels as I accumulate parts.