Alpha Hands on mid-60s DateJusts

[ewand]

hello everyone

I'm an occasional lurker here but with only a single Rolex in my sprawling vintage collection [comprised mostly of Seikos] and little real Rolex knowledge to share, I'm looking rather than offering help :)

I bought a mid-60s DateJust a few years ago from a member on TRF who I believe is well-regarded and when we met to do the deal F2F seemed like a nice guy. I love the look of this watch but have been looking for more info on some of its features which I'm hoping some more knowledgeable members might be able to share.



Hands
Does anyone know how the Alpha hands variants were offered?
Would it have been possible to buy either / or Alpha/stick hands in period, or would they have been an option ordered from the factory, or even a different SKU in the catalog?

Hour Markers
Similarly, the somewhat art deco hour markers appear to be different from other DJs of the era. I've seen photos of other Alpha hand watches with the same markers, yet have seen other Alpha hands watches without them (so it's not necessarily a given that they came together)

Serial Number
Now, there's so much conflicting info on serial number ranges out there, I'm not sure which to believe. The watch has a serial of 1258xxx between the lower lugs and model ref 1603 between the upper pair.

Some online lookup tools say that the 125xxxx range dates to 1966. Others that it's 1958 or 1959. I'd prefer to think James Dowling's reference of a serial no 1259xxx dating to II 1965 is more accurate.

My watch's case back has what appears to be II 65 on it so I'm inclined to say that the case and case back at least are from a 1965 watch, from the 2nd quarter?



The Jubilee bracelet with 55 endlinks is also stamped 4 65 on the clasp blade so I'm supposing it might well be original to the case...



Movement
The movement is a 1560. I presume that D99029 is the movement serial number but also gather that it's not published how to reference that number with the case number and Rolex doesn't offer an Extract of the Archives so nobody outside could be certain that this movement was initially fitted to this case... am I correct?



Other online resources suggested that the 1603 watch changed to the 1570 movement in 1965, so if this is a Q2 1965 watch, and the movement / dial / hands are original to the case, then it could be towards the end of production.

If anyone else would care to share experience or expertise, then I'd love to know more. Whatever happens, I remain very happy with this watch :-)

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by ewand

hello everyone

I'm an occasional lurker here but with only a single Rolex in my sprawling vintage collection [comprised mostly of Seikos] and little real Rolex knowledge to share, I'm looking rather than offering help :)

I bought a mid-60s DateJust a few years ago from a member on TRF who I believe is well-regarded and when we met to do the deal F2F seemed like a nice guy. I love the look of this watch but have been looking for more info on some of its features which I'm hoping some more knowledgeable members might be able to share.



Hands
Does anyone know how the Alpha hands variants were offered?
Would it have been possible to buy either / or Alpha/stick hands in period, or would they have been an option ordered from the factory, or even a different SKU in the catalog?

Hour Markers
Similarly, the somewhat art deco hour markers appear to be different from other DJs of the era. I've seen photos of other Alpha hand watches with the same markers, yet have seen other Alpha hands watches without them (so it's not necessarily a given that they came together)

Serial Number
Now, there's so much conflicting info on serial number ranges out there, I'm not sure which to believe. The watch has a serial of 1258xxx between the lower lugs and model ref 1603 between the upper pair.

Some online lookup tools say that the 125xxxx range dates to 1966. Others that it's 1958 or 1959. I'd prefer to think James Dowling's reference of a serial no 1259xxx dating to II 1965 is more accurate.

My watch's case back has what appears to be II 65 on it so I'm inclined to say that the case and case back at least are from a 1965 watch, from the 2nd quarter?



The Jubilee bracelet with 55 endlinks is also stamped 4 65 on the clasp blade so I'm supposing it might well be original to the case...



Movement
The movement is a 1560. I presume that D99029 is the movement serial number but also gather that it's not published how to reference that number with the case number and Rolex doesn't offer an Extract of the Archives so nobody outside could be certain that this movement was initially fitted to this case... am I correct?



Other online resources suggested that the 1603 watch changed to the 1570 movement in 1965, so if this is a Q2 1965 watch, and the movement / dial / hands are original to the case, then it could be towards the end of production.

If anyone else would care to share experience or expertise, then I'd love to know more. Whatever happens, I remain very happy with this watch :-)

I'm not sure I'd call myself an expert, but what I do know about Datejusts of this period is that they were real workhorses, being offered with a whole gamut of options as well as having the ability for different dials/hands/bezels being swapped out and around. I think it's the real beauty of the Datejust, but it also means that they tend to escape classification the way you see GMT Masters or Submariners.

Nothing here seems that unusual for a Datejust of this vintage, at least in my opinion (and taken for whatever that's worth). I think the sword hands are an unusual but great look, makes it look a lot more classic relative to the obelisk hands. Not really relevant, but I love the look of the 15xx movements and they were very well designed and reliable.

[TuRo]

Hi there,
Because it's pre 74 (caseback analysis available) the VRF serial number project will help you get very close to date and it is in my opinion (apart from say Haywood's and others personal databases) the only reliable guide:

http://vintagerolexforum.info/vrf/index3.html

[ewand]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Hi there,
Because it's pre 74 (caseback analysis available) the VRF serial number project will help you get very close to date and it is in my opinion (apart from say Haywood's and others personal databases) the only reliable guide:

http://vintagerolexforum.info/vrf/index3.html

Thanks - that's what I referenced in the comment about James Dowling:


Screenshot 2023-07-27 110107.png

My watch is a few hundreds earlier in the sequence than this one so I'm presuming it is indeed II 65.

[Dan S]

Everything looks fine to me. Nice watch.

[joli160]

I like these hands

[ewand]

Funnily enough, they match another Rolex I bought for my wife, also from a member on here :)

[springer]

The hands are original. There were some interesting hand styles used by Rolex during that era. Below is my 1964 Date model.

[ewand]

Thanks for the comments guys!

[DavidUK]

The hands look very similar to the Precision I had a while back...