Rolex Precision

[CraigP86]

What CNC machines does Rolex use? They state that some of their parts require precision of +/- 2 microns. I read an article on The Verge that Apple discards a good amount of their cases and straps with acceptable tolerances of +/- 5 microns and that they are now the largest purchasers of the same machines that Rolex uses. So how does Rolex extract such a large amount of precision over the same machine that Apple (supposedly) uses?

[omar-rye]

Where did you hear that Rolex and Apple use the same CNC machines? I'm not doubting it, but it's a random piece of information that I can't see being leaked to the public.

[CraigP86]

I don’t think I can post links but it’s on The Verge. “At the time, the largest buyer of these machines was Rolex. And then Apple bought more than anyone had ever bought, including Rolex up until that point.” theverge com/23743095/apple-watch-band-release-x206-assembly-button-of-the-month

[csaltphoto]

"How precise are we talking? Well, for a little perspective, a human hair is about 70 microns thick, and a regular CNC can cut down to about plus or minus 50 microns. As for the fancy-schmancy Swiss CNCs for cutting the Apple Watch band slot? The accuracy is plus or minus five microns, the ex-Apple engineers say. Even with that precision, “the number of finished watch housings and bands they have thrown away because they didn’t meet these exacting tolerances is an inordinate quantity. It’s not a small number.”

Apple has purchased hundreds of the multimillion-dollar CNC machines, ex-engineers say. “At the time, the largest buyer of these machines was Rolex. And then Apple bought more than anyone had ever bought, including Rolex up until that point.” But you don’t become a watchmaker overnight by just buying CNC machines from under Rolex’s nose. “The number of people who lived in the factory getting these machines up and running, 24/7 sleeping bags on the floor, is not zero. People’s whole lives to get that one slot perfect.”

Link: https://www.theverge.com/23743095/ap...n-of-the-month

[CraigP86]

Thanks for posting.

Apple doesn’t strike me as a company that would cheap out on tooling. How would one explain how Rolex is more precise with the same tools?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CraigP86

What CNC machines does Rolex use? They state that some of their parts require precision of +/- 2 microns. I read an article on The Verge that Apple discards a good amount of their cases and straps with acceptable tolerances of +/- 5 microns and that they are now the largest purchasers of the same machines that Rolex uses. So how does Rolex extract such a large amount of precision over the same machine that Apple (supposedly) uses?

Are people possibly confusing the timekeeping standard the Rolex has been advertising/promoting since the later half of 2015?
Their "Superlative Chronometer" standard covers a daily precision of -2 to +2 seconds, whilst the target accuracy is -1 to +3 as has been revealed(but not confirmed) most recently.

+ or - 2 Microns in manufacturing tolerance is fairly fanciful by my reckoning

[CraigP86]

No Rolex states its manufacturing tolerances are as low as +\- 2 microns.
newsroom-content dot rolex dot com/-/media/project/rolex/newsroom/rolex/rolex-newsroom-int/brochures/en/02_rolex_balance_wheel_english_2018 dot pdf

[Redemption144]

Talking about micrometer precision is quite amazing. I machine tools and molds - and I don’t approach that level of precision.
Now in all reality, I feel that some may confuse thousands of inch with micron, with the inch/meter conversion being forgotten or just not understood. 0.5/1000” is already pretty good precision, and I can’t quite see what Apple Watch would need more really - especially a slot for a band.

[CraigP86]

Yes I thought it was fascinating as well which was why I’d like to run it down. That level of precision is incredible.

As for Apple, maybe they don’t get enough credit for their manufacturing.

I think all of this is top of mind because of comments Elon Musk made about the Cybertruck needing sub 10 micron precision and lots of people saying that’s ludicrous, while Rolex is doing 2!

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CraigP86

No Rolex states its manufacturing tolerances are as low as +\- 2 microns.
newsroom-content dot rolex dot com/-/media/project/rolex/newsroom/rolex/rolex-newsroom-int/brochures/en/02_rolex_balance_wheel_english_2018 dot pdf

Keep in mind that Rolex plays with the truth like a child would play with a doll.
The Rolex marketing department don't let facts get in the way of their good stories and never have. What they claim must not be taken at face value.

Ok, if I were to read between the lines in all this.
I can imagine that they are perhaps talking about the tolerance of the Rhodium plating thickness????
Or perhaps even lubrication film thicknesses????
Or perhaps the glue thickness under the Cyclops????
How about the AR coating thickness????
I nearly forgot. How about the thickness of the Teflon coating on the Reverse wheels????
And they are extrapolating or spinning it out as a real thing that nobody else can or will have the desire or capability to pursue.

I recommend you forget about it and save yourself from going down some kind of rabbit hole that Rolex has created for you.
In summary, Rolex twists facts to make themselves look better than they are big time not to mention better than everyone else and they are masters of it.
Good Luck

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CraigP86

What CNC machines does Rolex use? They state that some of their parts require precision of +/- 2 microns. I read an article on The Verge that Apple discards a good amount of their cases and straps with acceptable tolerances of +/- 5 microns and that they are now the largest purchasers of the same machines that Rolex uses. So how does Rolex extract such a large amount of precision over the same machine that Apple (supposedly) uses?

The only Rolex Precision test is that they test the movement in its case to a Precision of -2+2 seconds at time of testing on a machine.But on the wrist with owners wearing habits could vary a few seconds or so almost daily.

[77T]

I think we are talking about 3 different things almost interchangeably.

First, Accuracy vs. Precision. Accuracy refers to how close a measurement is to the true or accepted value. (eg, 2 microns)
Precision refers to how close measurements of the same item are to each other. (eg, item 1 and item 99 are the same)

Second, Purpose. Apple is using the equipment for different purposes than Rolex and the fineness of the accuracy may vary due to their purpose.

Third, Place and Volume. The manufacturing is in China with Apple churning out millions per month. Rolex is in Switzerland slowly making a million (approx.) per year.

Just my 2¢ - it serve to reason that Apple will need more machines of this type than all watchmakers combined.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[DJH1977]

Impressive. A red blood cell is around 8 microns.

[CraigP86]

Really is, although I'm sure we'll never really know.

There are a couple of Swiss companies that market their machining products with positional accuracy of fractions of a micron so I guess its possible?

Another thing that crossed my mind is that it probably takes significantly longer to machine a part to increasingly lower levels of tolerance. It would explain, if they really are using the same machines, Apples tolerances are probably based more on output than Rolex.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Keep in mind that Rolex plays with the truth like a child would play with a doll.

And for that matter so does Apple and Elon Musk!

[SolanaWatches]

I think the difference in acceptable tolerance can be explained by the production capacity. It's safe to assume Apple's production output of Apple Watches is in the several millions of units a year. They can't output that many with such precision. In short, they are willing to sacrifice a bit of precision for a greater product output.

The production of these watches is also not in Apple's own hands, whereas Rolex most definitely has these machines in Switzerland, and operated by Rolex employees. This level of care simply cannot be replicated at Apple's scale.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

And for that matter so does Apple and Elon Musk!

Lol.
I wouldn't know as I try to stay away from all that sort of thing, but my wife has an Apple watch to monitor her heart health and as far as I know she also had to buy a phone to go with it to make it fit for purpose.

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Keep in mind that Rolex plays with the truth like a child would play with a doll.
The Rolex marketing department don't let facts get in the way of their good stories and never have. What they claim must not be taken at face value.

Ok, if I were to read between the lines in all this.
I can imagine that they are perhaps talking about the tolerance of the Rhodium plating thickness????
Or perhaps even lubrication film thicknesses????
Or perhaps the glue thickness under the Cyclops????
How about the AR coating thickness????
I nearly forgot. How about the thickness of the Teflon coating on the Reverse wheels????
And they are extrapolating or spinning it out as a real thing that nobody else can or will have the desire or capability to pursue.

I recommend you forget about it and save yourself from going down some kind of rabbit hole that Rolex has created for you.
In summary, Rolex twists facts to make themselves look better than they are big time not to mention better than everyone else and they are masters of it.
Good Luck

I was thinking the same thing and agree 100%.