The Official Formula One Thread!

[enjoythemusic]

Max knowingly went too fast on the inside and knew he'd not have enough traction... and so cut in front of....

God i hope LVMH buys F1.

[77T]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Max knowingly went too fast on the inside and knew he'd not have enough traction... and so cut in front of....

Agree...
He sure dove in deep.

I think VER jammed the whoa pedal as he realized HAM had pared a few feet off the track width. Thus the lock-up.

Lock-up fronts = zero steer angle.

Both drivers had options - didn't use them - and neither were predominantly at fault. Two mistakes and both survived incident to finish.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by Talon84

More stewards afraid of penalising Max…..

For the avoidance of doubt - nobody is afraid of VER when he infringes:




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[Talon84]

Originally Posted by 77T

For the avoidance of doubt - nobody is afraid of VER when he infringes:




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Except when you look through history they are….Brazil 2021 for instance and even in Austria the stewards admitted afterwards they should have come down on him harder, sooner…..

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by 77T

Agree...
He sure dove in deep.

I think VER jammed the whoa pedal as he realized HAM had pared a few feet off the track width. Thus the lock-up.

Lock-up fronts = zero steer angle.

Both drivers had options - didn't use them - and neither were predominantly at fault. Two mistakes and both survived incident to finish.


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What was Hamilton’s option? Enter the pits and keep off the track so max didn’t understeer into him?

Genuine question, rolls reversed do you think max would have been magnanimous as Lewis? There have been a few incidents rolls reversed where hamilton has understeered into Perez for instance at Austria where he’s been blamed for the incident and penalised

I think in this instance the stewards bottled it. They looked at the result of the incident rather than the action….something that they shouldn’t do

If Hamilton had been forced to retire, would they have been so lenient? I doubt it!

[INC]

I think it was an interesting race :)

Mad Max is back and has learned to fly again. I think he still can't stand it when he can't drive as fast as he could. However, today Per was only two places behind Max! This means, on the one hand, that this car is not good at all, and on the other hand, it is possible that after this it will not be PER who changes teams the following year, but Max.

It seems to me that RBR has started to fall apart since the scandal...

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 77T

Both drivers had options - didn't use them

So HAM was just to let VER...

note to self, f1 is just sports entertainment.

nevermind, as whatever the ruling is surely is correct for the games.

Love you Paul, total respect, but surely you must be on your side of the computer screen kinda LOL'ing at it all. it's just a Game For The Riches And Headlines .... as long as no one gets hurt it's all good.

Sheesh, won't even let us see the below.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by INC

I think it was an interesting race :)

Mad Max is back and has learned to fly again. I think he still can't stand it when he can't drive as fast as he could. However, today Per was only two places behind Max! This means, on the one hand, that this car is not good at all, and on the other hand, it is possible that after this it will not be PER who changes teams the following year, but Max.

It seems to me that RBR has started to fall apart since the scandal...

That car has still won 7 races this season, held fastest lap and ran with the leaders throughout the race in 2nd, 3rd places…its not exactly a dog is it?

Admttedly probably the second best car at the moment but the only reason max was only 2 places ahead of perez was though his own mistakes in crashing into lewis while trying to get on the podium.

….its not exactly a williams is it….

[SDGT3]

The following are quite obvious to me now:

1. The Red Bull of the first 7 races is not on par with either the McLaren's or the Mercedes on occasion.

2. Max has only been on pole once in the past 6 races lending to the RBR pace.

3. Lando has raw speed, but is not a championship winning driver yet. He has tunnel vision and is stubborn in races (not just today), that he loses focus on the bigger picture. He fixates on a particular driver and not the long game. Case in point, today, he should have given back the position straight away so that he could mount a comeback on Piastri rather than string it out for 20+ laps. If you're going to do that, then keep the position and deal with the consequences afterwards (multi21 anyone)? Instead the team had to try and reason with him and at times, beg him, to pull over. Either you're a straight up assassin like Max or a cunning masterclass driver like Schumacher or Alonso, but he's no where near that lot at the moment.

[SDGT3]

Every message as McLaren desperately pleaded with Lando Norris to obey team orders:


Lap 47:
Tom Stallard, race engineer to Oscar Piastri (TS): “OK Oscar, Lando has pitted to cover Hamilton to make sure he covers Hamilton. We’ll manage that situation, best pace from you now. Best pace.
“Best pace. Don’t worry about Lando.”
Lap 48:
Will Joseph, race engineer to Lando Norris (WJ):
“OK Lando, Oscar has just pitted. He’ll likely come out just behind you. We’d likely to re-establish the order, at your convenience.”
Lap 49:
WJ: “Lando, still 21 laps after this one. You do have the current fastest lap, look after the tyres.”
Lap 51:
TS: OK Oscar, so, once you get to Lando, we’ll swap positions. We’ll swap position, but we want to avoid Lando having to give up a lot of race time.”
Lap 53:
WJ: “And Lando, radio check, please.
LN: “Yes, loud and clear.”
WJ: “OK, save the tyres at Turn 4 and Turn 11, please.”
Lap 56:
WJ: “We need to save more tyres please, and we do want to let Oscar through.”
LN: “Well you should have boxed him first then, surely no?”
WJ: “Doesn’t matter.”
LN: “I mean, it does. To me maybe.”
Lap 57:
WJ: “And Lando, we still think you’re using the tyres too much at Turns 4 and 11 and the rears at exit Turn 6 and Turn 9. Oscar is 3.5 [behind] – we know you’ll do the right thing.”
Lap 58:
WJ: “And Lando, Hiroshi is stressed about the tyres.”
Lap 59:
WJ: “Turn 4, Turn 11 – it’s going to get boring.”
Lap 61:
WJ: “OK Lando, 10 laps to go – we think both cars are using their tyres too much. Just remember every single Sunday morning meeting we’ve had.”
LN: “Yeah, well tell him to catch up please.”
Lap 64:
WJ: “Lando, he can’t catch you up. You’ve proved your point and it really doesn’t matter.”
LN: “He’s on much quicker tyres. I mean, I would have tried to undercut anyway. If I did, I would have got more.”
WJ: “Mate, we did the stop sequence in this order for the good of the team.”
WJ and LN talk over each other for a sentence – unintelligible.
WJ: “I’m trying to protect you mate, I promise, I’m trying to protect you.”
Lap 66:
WJ: “And Lando, there are five laps to go. The way to win a championship is not by yourself, it’s with the team. You’re going to need Oscar, and you’re going to need the team.”
Lap 67:
OP: “The longer we leave this, the riskier it gets.”
TS: “Understood, Oscar, we’re managing it.”
WJ: “A potential Safety Car now would make this very awkward. Please do it. Now.”
Lap 68: Norris slows down the main straight to release Piastri into the lead
LN: “Yeah, you don’t need to say anything.”
Lap 70: Chequered flag, Piastri leads McLaren 1-2 home for maiden F1 win
TS: “Well done, Oscar, well done. Chequered flag. Well done, buddy. Really good.”
OP: “Yep, thank you, everyone. Thank you very much. Thanks for the coordination. Sorry, I made the swap a little bit more painful than it needed to be. But thank you, I appreciate that. Well done, maximum points, and a really good weekend. Ha. First F1 win, thank you very much, everyone, thanks.”
LN: “Well done, good 1-2, a good load of points. Congrats to the team. Well deserved.”
WJ: “As we said this morning mate, many more opportunities.”
TS: “And you are also Driver of the Day!”
OP: “Ah, a nice little bonus, thank you.”

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Talon84

Unfortunately people have said max has matured over the last couple of years…..guess its easy to mature when youre so far out front.

Put under pressure and he reverts to max 1.0….some of his moves in Austria and today along with the radio messages…..not great tbh.

Found it interesting that maxs comms finally had the nuts to tell him to shut up and stop being so silly…its been a long time coming.

Great for Piastri and Mclaren. Been following the aussie since karting and Lando since his ginetta days so amazing to see them do so well now

Piastri's rise to the podium is a great read starting off racing remote control cars then as you said karts, his record is exceptional.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

Piastri's rise to the podium is a great read starting off racing remote control cars then as you said karts, his record is exceptional.

Yup, still a rough diamond but absolutely has the chance to win world championships given the right team and car.

I suspect Lando knows this so was trying to assert his authority yesterday.

I also think Lando can win championships....it will be an interesting dynamic going forward within mclaren with 2 hungry young talents

[77T]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

So HAM was just to let VER...

note to self, f1 is just sports entertainment.

nevermind, as whatever the ruling is surely is correct for the games.

Love you Paul, total respect, but surely you must be on your side of the computer screen kinda LOL'ing at it all. it's just a Game For The Riches And Headlines .... as long as no one gets hurt it's all good.

Sheesh, won't even let us see the below.

Not laughing at anyone's actions or opinions. Driver and fan have them in equal abundance. I follow the theory (mind you, all of it is theoretical until two cars try to occupy the same space) that actions have consequences.

There were many millions of $$$ lost by those who bet NOR for the win. So there's that angle on team orders for example.

On VER/HAM, the incident was going to happen and thankfully nobody was hurt. Racing is a dynamic process. Although the guidelines indicate specific relative positions of the cars at various points, the Stewards will always look at how the situation played out in total when reviewing an incident.

Those are in fact notes given to Stewards in the DSG. A good read was published back in early July about the VER penalty in Austria:
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/wh...ated/10631527/

Let's watch Spa and see what happens when tires touch in Eau Rouge. You see, it's so contextual.


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[enjoythemusic]

Good points Paul, and as long as no one gets hurt and the cars still drive rubbing is racing.

[Speedbird-1]

It sounds like the cricket, Test Match, was far more interesting.

F1 is a very big yawn these days, lets hope American corporations, don't get control of Tiddlywinks, and ruin that sport as a spectacle!

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by 77T

On VER/HAM, the incident was going to happen and thankfully nobody was hurt. Racing is a dynamic process. Although the guidelines indicate specific relative positions of the cars at various points, the Stewards will always look at how the situation played out in total when reviewing an incident.


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So on that.

The stewards noted that hamilton didnt move under braking as max accused him of doing, and also noted that he took exactly the same line and braking points as previous laps.

Other than jumping out of the way every time max brakes too late, throws it down the inside and understeers into people, what should hamilton do?

Do we just let drivers win by default these days aslong as they chuck it down the inside or run others off track?

Other than hamilton giving them a get out of jail free card by saying it was a racing incident, im actually unsure how the stewards said noone was predominately at fault. They stated one driver didnt alter his line or braking points, backed up by video evidence and telemetry while the other braked too late, off line and locked up running into the other driver. Its even more bizzare when multiple incidents of a similar nature have been penalised in the past couple of years

This is a genuine question btw and not a dig, before racing myself i marshalled and stewarded events for years over here in the uk so know how tough a job it can be but ive seen my fair share of incidents and penalties handed out so at a loss with their reasoning on this one!

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

It sounds like the cricket, Test Match, was far more interesting.

F1 is a very big yawn these days, lets hope American corporations, don't get control of Tiddlywinks, and ruin that sport as a spectacle!

It was actually quite a good race, actually the last few have been since mclaren have caught up and merc as slowly coming into the game.

Bit too late to change the championship i think but at least makes it more entertaining

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Talon84

Yup, still a rough diamond but absolutely has the chance to win world championships given the right team and car.

I suspect Lando knows this so was trying to assert his authority yesterday.

I also think Lando can win championships....it will be an interesting dynamic going forward within mclaren with 2 hungry young talents

The perfect storm like you said two very very hungry young skilled lads, Lando knows he has an absolute ace on his tail and Mclaren knows it too.

Rough diamond………mmmm maybe but as you probably well know and anyone who has studied his rise this guy imo is a freak, no ego, calm, focused and only one objective to win like he has done since racing remote controls.

[SDGT3]

I wouldn’t say one championship seems to be a lock but it’s pretty close. I still think McLaren win the constructors title, even with a potential driver change at RBR after summer break, and to be fair, MAC deserves it. They’ve come a long way and been the best car in this 2nd quarter of the season and have a formidable driver line up.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

The perfect storm like you said two very very hungry young skilled lads, Lando knows he has an absolute ace on his tail and Mclaren knows it too.

Rough diamond………mmmm maybe but as you probably well know and anyone who has studied his rise this guy imo is a freak, no ego, calm, focused and only one objective to win like he has done since racing remote controls.

Oh absolutely, i dont mean that to diminish piastris skills, quite the opposite….hes still very young and has entered a very complex era of f1 so will develop in time and will be incredible to watch.

Tbh there are some incredible drivers coming up at the moment.

Keep an eye out for Pourchaire, Bearman, Antonelli, Freddie Slater, Lindblad…

….tbh half the grid needs their marching orders and get the young blood in

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

I wouldn’t say one championship seems to be a lock but it’s pretty close. I still think McLaren win the constructors title, even with a potential driver change at RBR after summer break, and to be fair, MAC deserves it. They’ve come a long way and been the best car in this 2nd quarter of the season and have a formidable driver line up.

Yeh id echo that.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Talon84

So on that.

The stewards noted that hamilton didnt move under braking as max accused him of doing, and also noted that he took exactly the same line and braking points as previous laps.

Other than jumping out of the way every time max brakes too late, throws it down the inside and understeers into people, what should hamilton do?

Do we just let drivers win by default these days aslong as they chuck it down the inside or run others off track?

Other than hamilton giving them a get out of jail free card by saying it was a racing incident, im actually unsure how the stewards said noone was predominately at fault. They stated one driver didnt alter his line or braking points, backed up by video evidence and telemetry while the other braked too late, off line and locked up running into the other driver. Its even more bizzare when multiple incidents of a similar nature have been penalised in the past couple of years

This is a genuine question btw and not a dig, before racing myself i marshalled and stewarded events for years over here in the uk so know how tough a job it can be but ive seen my fair share of incidents and penalties handed out so at a loss with their reasoning on this one!

See post 6389

That is what the Stewards published.

I do not see the same wording as you are using.

But in answer - any driver who sees an idiotic move heading in their direction will preserve their car.

Thus the note that HAM could have done more. Just as I said in Austria - NOR could have done more. Not that they owe racing room since they are ahead - just to preserve the car and their chance to over/under the divebomber.

Since you have the experience I presume you were a Chair at one time or another. If one picked every nit in a 70 lap race the printer would run out of ink and paper.

This one was self-penalizing IMHO - VER ended 6.5s astern of HAM.
VER had damage as a result.

HAM survived and VER continued. That's the reason Garry chose to hear the case after the race - much to unpack from the telemetry and multiple cameras.

Anyway are we done with Hungary?
Spa looks so tasty...




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[Talon84]

Originally Posted by 77T

See post 6389

That is what the Stewards published.

I do not see the same wording as you are using.

But in answer - any driver who sees an idiotic move heading in their direction will preserve their car.

Thus the note that HAM could have done more. Just as I said in Austria - NOR could have done more. Not that they owe racing room since they are ahead - just to preserve the car and their chance to over/under the divebomber.

Since you have the experience I presume you were a Chair at one time or another. If one picked every nit in a 70 lap race the printer would run out of ink and paper.

This one was self-penalizing IMHO - VER ended 6.5s astern of HAM.
VER had damage as a result.

HAM survived and VER continued. That's the reason Garry chose to hear the case after the race - much to unpack from the telemetry and multiple cameras.

Anyway are we done with Hungary?
Spa looks so tasty...




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Yeh was a clerk with MSUK (or the MSA as it was known back then)
I guess my views have changed/ evolved depending on whether I was marshalling, in race control or on track as a driver..,,we all have different perspectives!

I agree you can’t penalise everything, but feel it’s important to get the big calls right

2 final points

1) yes as drivers of course you jump out of the way if an idiotic driver comes at you….problem is, if you keep doing that and stewards don’t penalise it, said driver will keep doing it knowing he can get away with it and intimidate other drivers

2) as the rules are written, you penalise the action, not the outcome. The fact it was self policing, shouldn’t really come into it.

Indeed onto Spa, could be a spicy one!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Talon84

Other than hamilton giving them a get out of jail free card by saying it was a racing incident, im actually unsure how the stewards said noone was predominately at fault. They stated one driver didnt alter his line or braking points, backed up by video....

Just give up, F1 is Sports Entertainment nowadays. Once one realizes it's all just a game for entertainment, it makes more sense.

PS: While i agree with you, just give up. All hope under current leading forces and finances is lost.

PPS: www.Chess.com is far, far more exciting. The recent matches and blitzes have some very exciting moments! Today's play was quite interesting. Plus there are no team orders. :-)

[77T]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

I wouldn’t say one championship seems to be a lock but it’s pretty close. I still think McLaren win the constructors title, even with a potential driver change at RBR after summer break, and to be fair, MAC deserves it. They’ve come a long way and been the best car in this 2nd quarter of the season and have a formidable driver line up.

Unless PER produces good points at Spa, he is going to the SIM role.

Look for LAW to replace him.

McLaren does have a good chance and the hard work at MTC in the tunnel and design has paid dividends. Zak should be back at Spa and after Summer break.

Horner has said that Red Bull restricted Adrian Newey's access to briefings, information, and what activities in which he takes part.

I think pulling Newey has had affected the quality of the upgrades already.

That's where the gaps are methinks. VER can feel it in his seat. PER seat has gone to sleep.


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[Talon84]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Just give up, F1 is Sports Entertainment nowadays. Once one realizes it's all just a game for entertainment, it makes more sense.

PS: While i agree with you, just give up. All hope under current leading forces and finances is lost.

PPS: www.Chess24.com is far, far more exciting. The recent matches and blitzes have some very exciting moments! Today's play was quite interesting. Plus there are no team orders. :-)

I think if you look through the history of f1 its always been about entertainment and there has rarely been ‘sporting fairness’.

Go back to the early 70s and the lack of applying the rules, same in the 80s and 90s….some of which is quite comical looking back

I think the difference is these days under liberty, theres wayyyyyy more information available to show us whats going on, and the drama is highlighted much more.

Whats the old saying, ignorance is bliss!

I actually think the sport would be much more enjoyable and less controvertial without team radios, AWS graphics and everything analysed to the nth degree etc etc

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Speedbird-1

It sounds like the cricket, Test Match, was far more interesting.

F1 is a very big yawn these days, lets hope American corporations, don't get control of Tiddlywinks, and ruin that sport as a spectacle!

It sounds as if you haven't watched the race yet?

[jatco]

Originally Posted by Andad

It sounds as if you haven't watched the race yet?

Ya thinks..??
Where've been ..??
And what are your expectations..??

[77T]

Hungary F1 & F2 were both good races.


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[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by Talon84

Oh absolutely, i dont mean that to diminish piastris skills, quite the opposite….hes still very young and has entered a very complex era of f1 so will develop in time and will be incredible to watch.

Tbh there are some incredible drivers coming up at the moment.

Keep an eye out for Pourchaire, Bearman, Antonelli, Freddie Slater, Lindblad…

….tbh half the grid needs their marching orders and get the young blood in

I agree 100% the young blood are so much more exciting and hungry real hungry, what is your opinion on when/if we will get a female F1 driver?

Also, I actually think it was an exciting race, we can always go back to the "good ol' days", maybe i just don't understand the intricacies of it and I am okay with that.