5167 ( my first purhcase)

[atticusfinchLS]

I am finally going to buy my first high-end watch. I am fond of the Patek Philippe 5167 and have been searching for about six months. I was wondering what the correct price range I should expect to pay is, and what sites, other than Chrono24, you would suggest for finding the watch. How much emphasis should I place on a "never worn" condition versus a "good condition" pre-owned watch?

[321Forever]

A used one in NA on bracelet probably will sell for ~$50K with FB&P, meaning that it has some wear, but no significant scratches and defects.

I have a mid-2010s one and was trying to decide whether to keep it or sell it. I shopped it to two dealers this week and one offered to consign it with my net price being at best $41K if it sold for their starting price. Another dealer that was willing to buy it was offering in the mid 30s. Both were going to price it to sell around $50K. So for owners who want to cash out quickly, the dealer buying angle has significant consequences.

[jgottsman11]

Definitely buy brand new for an aquanaut. That's my opinion. I don't want anyone else's hairlines on my Patek

[HughBlogh]

On Facebook groups, I’m seeing high 40s low 50s depending on condition and if a complete set, so 50 on chrono24 sounds about right

If you’re planning on keeping the watch forever, I’d spring for brand new.

If you like swapping watches, you’re probably better off buying in good condition but not brand new

[JR16]

I would be cautious about buying from chrono24 or FB. Always buy the seller- pay extra for piece of mind. Check out trusted sellers like davidsw, European watch co, Watchbox, etc etc


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[ts3]

This recent thread may be helpful...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=959476

People say buy the seller but some of the sellers you see getting recommended all the time are playing games too. They advertise watches in like new condition which look like new to the untrained eye but have just been "touched up" from a more or less banged up condition for the sale. You better be able to properly evaluate the condition yourself.

[DavidSB]

All the advice to inspect a potential watch purchase in person assumes the buyer is experienced enough to evaluate the watch. My personal experience is that other than the most obvious indications e.g. pointed crown guards, this is unrealistic. I don't have a good solution other than maybe buy older knowing it's been nicely polished and enjoy it for what it is.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by atticusfinchLS

I am finally going to buy my first high-end watch. I am fond of the Patek Philippe 5167 and have been searching for about six months. I was wondering what the correct price range I should expect to pay is, and what sites, other than Chrono24, you would suggest for finding the watch. How much emphasis should I place on a "never worn" condition versus a "good condition" pre-owned watch?

If u would like to buy a high end watch, why do u choose an entry level sports one? Outside of branding, there is nothing high end about this particular model. Now if u would like to buy an expensive luxury watch, then go ahead.

I think u got bid side of equation, somewhere around mid 30s. U can figure out the fair margin on your own.

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

If u would like to buy a high end watch, why do u choose an entry level sports one? Outside of branding, there is nothing high end about this particular model. Now if u would like to buy an expensive luxury watch, then go ahead.

I think u got bid side of equation, somewhere around mid 30s. U can figure out the fair margin on your own.

It may be, hype aside, because even though Aquanauts are the « entry-level » sports line PP, they share the same caliber as higher-end timepieces from PP.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

It may be, hype aside, because even though Aquanauts are the « entry-level » sports line PP, they share the same caliber as higher-end timepieces from PP.

May u suggest please what is the high end aspect of that movement? I see none. It is a pedestrian movement with silicone hairspring. Just that alone would disqualify it from being high end.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by vliberman

May u suggest please what is the high end aspect of that movement? I see none. It is a pedestrian movement with silicone hairspring. Just that alone would disqualify it from being high end.

There are some 324-based movements that are more complicated, but yes it is a relatively basic movement. However, it is well-finished and robust. My 5167R keeps the best time out of my whole collection. It is a great everyday watch and is very comfortable to wear.

OP, It looks like $48000 USD range for complete 5167s on Moda (through Facebook). I personally wouldn't care if it was unworn or pre-owned, but I prefer complete sets.

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

May u suggest please what is the high end aspect of that movement? I see none. It is a pedestrian movement with silicone hairspring. Just that alone would disqualify it from being high end.

I read my message again and could not find where exactly I said that the 26-330 or the 324, for that matter, were high-end calibers.

That being said, if you find these calibers « pedestrian », I wonder if you have ever seen one « uncased » and had a close look at their finishing or are aware about their reliability, precision and versatility.

You can find the 26-330 in the 5160/500R (a retrograde perpetual calendar, considered as « Rare Handcrafts » by PP).

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

I read my message again and could not find where exactly I said that the 26-330 or the 324, for that matter, were high-end calibers.

That being said, if you find these calibers « pedestrian », I wonder if you have ever seen one « uncased » and had a close look at their finishing or are aware about their reliability, precision and versatility.

You can find the 26-330 in the 5160/500R (a retrograde perpetual calendar, considered as « Rare Handcrafts » by PP).

Reliability, precision and robustness is not a feature of high end watch, rather the opposite is often true.. finishing on Aquanaut is below average and certainly not at the high end standard..

[jgottsman11]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Reliability, precision and robustness is not a feature of high end watch, rather the opposite is often true.. finishing on Aquanaut is below average and certainly not at the high end standard..

Have you ever seen a Patek in person?

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Reliability, precision and robustness is not a feature of high end watch, rather the opposite is often true.. finishing on Aquanaut is below average and certainly not at the high end standard..

The word « robustness » does not come from my message. I have the feeling that you are answering to messages that you want to read not the ones that are written.

I also have the feeling that, for the Aquanaut, you are confused about the work on the caliber (which was my point), and the work on the case and bracelet.

Even though the case of the Aquanaut is not as sophisticated as other cases that PP makes (e.g. Nautilus, to mention a sport watch), the finishing level requires quite some effort and skills. I cannot comment on the bracelet since I have never inquired about this part.

A 5167 is also 8.1 mm thin, thanks to the « pedestrian » caliber 26-330, and rated 120 m (despite PP’s recent communication) with a sapphire crystal case back, thanks to the « below average finished » case.

You must have extremely high standards to consider that the 26-330 and an Aquanaut are pedestrian and finished below average.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Reliability, precision and robustness is not a feature of high end watch, rather the opposite is often true.. finishing on Aquanaut is below average and certainly not at the high end standard..

So the characteristics of a high end watch are unreliability, lack of precision and fragile nature? That doesn’t really make sense. Of course Aquanauts have a more basic movement with running seconds and a date. My older 324 movement is well finished, and seems appropriate for its price point and at a similar level to my 5712. Nothing wrong with that to me.


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[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

The word « robustness » does not come from my message. I have the feeling that you are answering to messages that you want to read not the ones that are written.

I also have the feeling that, for the Aquanaut, you are confused about the work on the caliber (which was my point), and the work on the case and bracelet.

Even though the case of the Aquanaut is not as sophisticated as other cases that PP makes (e.g. Nautilus, to mention a sport watch), the finishing level requires quite some effort and skills. I cannot comment on the bracelet since I have never inquired about this part.

A 5167 is also 8.1 mm thin, thanks to the « pedestrian » caliber 26-330, and rated 120 m (despite PP’s recent communication) with a sapphire crystal case back, thanks to the « below average finished » case.

You must have extremely high standards to consider that the 26-330 and an Aquanaut are pedestrian and finished below average.

The argument stems from the original idea of buying “high end” watch which Aquanaut is not… the rest is you trying to prove something else.. now if u want to make an argument for why it is a high end watch, please do.

In case of such a mistaken endeavor, please compare and contrast it to Paget Polo field watch that goes for about $10k…

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by srvrf

So the characteristics of a high end watch are unreliability, lack of precision and fragile nature? That doesn’t really make sense. Of course Aquanauts have a more basic movement with running seconds and a date. My older 324 movement is well finished, and seems appropriate for its price point and at a similar level to my 5712. Nothing wrong with that to me.


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Sure it makes sense… compare Dufour Simplicity to Rolex Daytona and tell me 1. Which one is high end 2. Which one is precise, robust and accurate. Hopefully it does now make sense to u!

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by jgottsman11

Have you ever seen a Patek in person?

There are numerous ways one can respond to this, many disparaging to the author… I will not…

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

The argument stems from the original idea of buying “high end” watch which Aquanaut is not… the rest is you trying to prove something else.. now if u want to make an argument for why it is a high end watch, please do.

In case of such a mistaken endeavor, please compare and contrast it to Paget Polo field watch that goes for about $10k…

From your message, I can say that you have never seen a 26-330 and a 1110P side-by-side.

I wish you good luck with your opinions.

[jgottsman11]

Originally Posted by byow

From your message, I can say that you have never seen a 26-330 and a 1110P side-by-side.

I wish you good luck with your opinions.

1110P movement looks like it's from a $800 Tissot watch. I feel better about this too lol

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Sure it makes sense… compare Dufour Simplicity to Rolex Daytona and tell me 1. Which one is high end 2. Which one is precise, robust and accurate. Hopefully it does now make sense to u!

So I'll say that the $1 million Simplicity is the high-end watch and the $15,000 MSRP Daytona is not. Easy question.

What misses the point is saying that a high-end movement is not precise, accurate or robust. With your example, I think Mr. Dufour would take serious issue with your premise that the Daytona's movement is better than his Simplicity movement in all three of these categories, especially with the massive price difference. At heart, he's a watchmaker and takes pride in making a watch that accurately tells time.

To bring it back to the OP's question, the Aquanaut has a great movement with nice finishing. While it is the entry level sports watch for Patek, it is still a Patek, which most people would consider high-end.

[JSCP]

grey they go for 60-90$k pending condition and year etc

[elmoboy]

I owned the 5167.. 2 things I dun like is the clasp(old type) usually it lock the top part and bottom part then u need to press in again to ensure both are lock. No issue with those fitted with newer clasp now..

2nd is the date wheel.. Encountered occasionally the date wheel change "half" and struck there for the rest of the day. Send in to service center.. They said if not very frequent then is not advice to open up the watch.

I loves the watch.. Is super slim and under the radar watch with reliable movement. However the hype is too much for such a basic patek movement.. I traded up to the 4947 annual calender and still get 16k.
No date wheel issue, no clasp issue and is a patek complication with a gorgeous blue satin dial. What can I ask for.