1680 Bezel won't fit in

[llm3000]

Hi Guys, I recently purchased a 1680 red sub with Mk IV Dial. it comes with a service bezel insert, so i added a bit more to buy a Rolex MK 3 insert from the same seller. However, it can't be tuck in. i had some other 1675 or 1680 and this never happened before even with the aftermarket ones just for the look

The measurement i got for the MK3 insert is 36.52mm dia. and the service insert is 36.34mm, the service insert can be securely tuck in with my fingers and do stay there. But the Mk3 looks like it is a tag bigger and i don't feel like it will go in even with the help of a piler or wood stick, it will slightly pop up after all areas are tucked in.

Seller is kind and happy to refund and take the bezel insert back or change another one for me but i am just curious. I asked a friend to measure his red sub bezel insert, the number is also 36.5mm.

Any experience, idea or suggestion? Cheers! *NEVERMIND IF YOU DONT HAVE SUGGESTION, NO NEED TO TELL ME TO RETURN IT. THANKS!

[Dom9]

Interesting! There have been a few of these threads over the years, including one by me. The general consensus seems to be that a 5513/1665/1680/Tudor Sub/other bezel/insert should be ~36.55mm.

However, I too own a 36.3mm insert that appears to be completely genuine, specifically because it is a service insert, bought from a trusted seller on here, and I don't think anyone has ever bothered trying to replicate a thin font, non-serif as they're so reasonably cheap anyway.

However, all of my bezels take the 36.55mm insert, which is what the rest of my inserts are, including another service insert I have. If I use this one (it sometimes gets rotation when I pick up a new watch without insert/damaged insert) it goes in with tape.

I Googled extensively and 36.3mm inserts do appear on ebay, etc. but as far as I can tell the 36.3mm bezel/insert combo is rare and there seemed to be some suggestion it could have been a service variant. I also have a couple of service bezels and they take the larger insert.

Would be interested if anyone could ever help us get to the bottom of this!

[swish77]

If both the insert and bezel are genuine it will fit .... However, old Sub inserts can often be a big pain. Some are easy, others are definitely not. I once snapped a beautiful ghost insert on my 5512 after hours of trying to fit it in. The tolerance is very small.

First, try putting the insert over an old glass bottle (like an old-fashion Coke bottle or the like) and applying even downward pressure (carefully) to make it more curved/concave and less flat. Then throw it in the freezer overnight to try to shrink it a bit.

There are numerous threads on the best technique to pop in the insert, but I get it in as much as possible with my thumbs, then pop in the last section using a lot of pressure on the edge of a cloth-covered desk or table. It should pop in.

Good luck.

[swaini3]

Could you post clear pictures / macros of the "Mk3 insert"?

[Dan S]

Bezels and inserts sometimes take some massaging. An experienced watchmaker with a full shop of tools might be helpful.

[N0trub]

Freeze the insert and warm the bezel..excellent example your red sub.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by N0trub

Freeze the insert and warm the bezel..excellent example your red sub.

This, make sure a serious delta in temperature.

[springer]

36.50 - to slightly larger like 36.52 for Submariner 1680/5513 inserts. Age and/or wear can slightly affect diameters.

[Nickn]

I literally spent days trying to put an insert into a 5513 bezel
My thumbs were red raw
I showed it to a friend who absentmindedly
Popped it in whist we were talking!!

[Dom9]

I think the point has been missed a bit - OP has a 36.34mm insert that snaps in and is secure, by the sounds of it. That shouldn't be possible with a standard 36.5+mm bezel ring.

I have plenty of 36.5Xmm inserts, 5513, 1680/8, Tudor, blue, black, etc. that are very difficult to snap in, but the 36.3mm insert always just falls out.

My insert wasn't specifically worn (edges black, uniformly round) and nor do I see a way it could be worn perfectly ~0.25mm over the diameter without shaving. I don't believe there are fake thin font service inserts but could be wrong of course.

I don't think we have our explanation. Flattening didn't get mine a lot larger. Always measures small. I posted a thread somewhere here a year or two ago, insert considered genuine. Quite a few others, measuring 36.3mm seem to appear for sale (without appearing shaved). It is why I always ask for them to be measured before buying these days.

So how does the OP's small insert fit his bezel, securely? I guess we need more pics of the bezel and insert(s) (front, back, side, etc).

[llm3000]

Thanks all who contributed but after reading the comments, i am more confused than before !
Some of you asked for more detail images, here you go.

Two things i found which doesn't feel right to me at the beginning. 1. the back profile of this Mk3 bezel (may not be a MK3, correct me if you think not), the changes of angles look a bit rapid to me (slanted part seems a bit narrow), and it is too shinny for its age (the front is faded to light grey).

[llm3000]

Originally Posted by Dom9

I think the point has been missed a bit - OP has a 36.34mm insert that snaps in and is secure, by the sounds of it. That shouldn't be possible with a standard 36.5+mm bezel ring.

I have plenty of 36.5Xmm inserts, 5513, 1680/8, Tudor, blue, black, etc. that are very difficult to snap in, but the 36.3mm insert always just falls out.

My insert wasn't specifically worn (edges black, uniformly round) and nor do I see a way it could be worn perfectly ~0.25mm over the diameter without shaving. I don't believe there are fake thin font service inserts but could be wrong of course.

I don't think we have our explanation. Flattening didn't get mine a lot larger. Always measures small. I posted a thread somewhere here a year or two ago, insert considered genuine. Quite a few others, measuring 36.3mm seem to appear for sale (without appearing shaved). It is why I always ask for them to be measured before buying these days.

So how does the OP's small insert fit his bezel, securely? I guess we need more pics of the bezel and insert(s) (front, back, side, etc).

Thank you Dom9... you pointed out lots of critical points. 1. even if mine is flattened over time, it is 36.5, so it shouldn't be hard to go in (unless it is flattened to 36.7 for example). and my 36.3 service insert stays which leads to another question, is my bezel fake? haha. can you share the post u had in the past? i tried to search and struggle to find the related topic threads.

[llm3000]

Originally Posted by Nickn

I literally spent days trying to put an insert into a 5513 bezel
My thumbs were red raw
I showed it to a friend who absentmindedly
Popped it in whist we were talking!!

Would love to meet your friend

[llm3000]

Originally Posted by N0trub

Freeze the insert and warm the bezel..excellent example your red sub.

thanks for the compliment! how would you suggest to warm the bezel? oven, airfryer, boiling water?

[llm3000]

Originally Posted by swish77

If both the insert and bezel are genuine it will fit .... However, old Sub inserts can often be a big pain. Some are easy, others are definitely not. I once snapped a beautiful ghost insert on my 5512 after hours of trying to fit it in. The tolerance is very small.

First, try putting the insert over an old glass bottle (like an old-fashion Coke bottle or the like) and applying even downward pressure (carefully) to make it more curved/concave and less flat. Then throw it in the freezer overnight to try to shrink it a bit.

There are numerous threads on the best technique to pop in the insert, but I get it in as much as possible with my thumbs, then pop in the last section using a lot of pressure on the edge of a cloth-covered desk or table. It should pop in.

Good luck.

thanks, will give it a try!

[N0trub]

Warm water from the tap…not so hot you cant touch it

If tired or frustrated i would wait being in a good head space is so important for the fiddly bits.

[oldtools]

Originally Posted by swish77

First, try putting the insert over an old glass bottle (like an old-fashion Coke bottle or the like) and applying even downward pressure (carefully) to make it more curved/concave and less flat.

Good luck.

Be very careful trying this. I tried doing this and snapped the insert in half at the pip.

[llm3000]

This thing is still unresolved and has been calculating at the back of my head. I come up to a new thinking, combined Dom9's comment about his bezel is not holding the 36.3 service insert but my watch comes with a 36.3 service insert and stay securely (watch serviced back in 2008). Could there be a service bezel Rolex made for their new batch of insert? Did anyone study this subject before?

The seller send me another insert today to try, which is a lovely kissing 4, looks very good on my watch but again its 36.55mm so not fitting. My other question is, Kissing 4 is not period matching with a MK IV 72 watch right?

I probably would buy and keep both the insert if they fit right the way as they both look lovely... sad

[Dan S]

Your bezel ring could have been adjusted at some point to hold the smaller insert. There's just no way to know the history.